Fraternal Twins

[violetwind]

Hi Ron,

About B,

first: the usage of "namely"
it is a adverb, and you said it can just be used before a noun (phrase), is it just idiomatic usage for just this word, right? no particular reason?

second: how should we see the clause that "namely"leads ?

what kind of clause is it? it uses "that" which is supposed to lead an essential clause without a comma before. a little lost here.

Thank you very much!

[mschwrtz]

My best advice for namely is simply to gloss it as as follows, here and elsewhere.

Now to the technical answer to your question. I hate to multiply grammatical categories, but namely is what is called a conjunctive adverb. It doesn't modify the noun it introduces; it represents the relationship between the clauses (or the clause and phrase) it joins.

Gloss the word namely as as follows to get a sense of the relationship it represents between these two clauses.

That is being used here as a subordinating conjunction, to introduce a subordinate clause. If you look through the OG you'll see many such usages, The committee proposed that..., that sort of thing.

I'll check whether we already have good thread on coordinating conjunctions, and post it below if we do.

[elevinty]

the first part of the sentence(in the correct answer choice) is it an independent clause not a subordinate clause(because of THAT)???
and for the second part, "NAMELY THAT" what is THAT referring too or is it similar to PROPOSE THAT, SUGGESTED THAT etc....

[RonPurewal]

the first part of the sentence(in the correct answer choice) is it an independent clause not a subordinate clause(because of THAT)???
and for the second part, "NAMELY THAT" what is THAT referring too or is it similar to PROPOSE THAT, SUGGESTED THAT etc....

i *think* (i'm not entirely sure) that this construction is called a "noun clause".
anyway, regardless of what it's called, here's how it's used:

the construction THAT + INDEPENDENT CLAUSE, taken as a whole, can be treated as a NOUN.

we don't see this construction very often because, in most situations, it's pretty awkward; generally, it's not used unless there are essentially no alternatives. for instance, we would not write "That you arrived late made me angry" -- even though this sentence would technically be correct -- because the alternative "Your late arrival made me angry" is much less awkward and more readable.
on the other hand, in the situation that we have here, i'm not really seeing any simpler and better ways to phrase the entire opening clause as a single noun (fact); hence, the use of the rather strange construction employed here.

on another note, notice that this construction is perfectly parallel with the construction that follows "namely"; that's another instance of the same type of construction.

[justprashant]

example: with five all-state players in its backfield, ballard high looks to shut down opposing offenses completely --> this makes sense, because ballard high actually has five all-state players in its backfield, thus justifying the use of "with". there's no corresponding sense of possession / belonging here.
this kills (c) and (d).

* the structure of choice (e) indicates that "this fact" is something other than the cited fact about fraternal twins' resemblance.
that kills (e).

Hi Ron,
I have 2 questions
1. As per sc 4th edition, New nano papers incorporate fibres that give these materials strength. Here these is used to refer "New nano papers", Similiarly in option e, doesnt "This Fact" referes to twins resembling each other and others look different?

2.Just to understand with construction, If option "c" were to be correct what should be followed after comma?? I tried to come up with few words but that dint make sense.

[RonPurewal]

1. As per sc 4th edition, New nano papers incorporate fibres that give these materials strength. Here these is used to refer "New nano papers", Similiarly in option e, doesnt "This Fact" referes to twins resembling each other and others look different?

the use of "because" implies that this fact can't be the fact just mentioned. in general, in the construction "because X, Y" or "Y because X", it's impossible for X and Y to refer to the same thing.

another example:
because i play the piano, i can use keyboards more efficiently --> in this sentence, "keyboards" must refer to something other than piano keyboards (e.g., computer keyboards, etc).

2.Just to understand with construction, If option "c" were to be correct what should be followed after comma?? I tried to come up with few words but that dint make sense.

in general, you shouldn't try to do this. don't try to fix sentences!

even though this section of the test is called, ironically, "sentence correction", you do not need to be able to fix the sentences; you only need to be able to select the correct answer choice from the choices given.
trying to fix the sentences is an irrelevant skill set; if you do too much of this, it will distract you from the skill set that you actually need. moreover, most users' attempts to fix sentences create numerous other errors, many of which are outside the scope of what is tested on the gmat.

[justprashant]

1. As per sc 4th edition, New nano papers incorporate fibres that give these materials strength. Here these is used to refer "New nano papers", Similiarly in option e, doesnt "This Fact" referes to twins resembling each other and others look different?

the use of "because" implies that this fact can't be the fact just mentioned. in general, in the construction "because X, Y" or "Y because X", it's impossible for X and Y to refer to the same thing.

another example:
because i play the piano, i can use keyboards more efficiently --> in this sentence, "keyboards" must refer to something other than piano keyboards (e.g., computer keyboards, etc).

Thanks Ron. It's clear now.

2.Just to understand with construction, If option "c" were to be correct what should be followed after comma?? I tried to come up with few words but that dint make sense.

in general, you shouldn't try to do this. don't try to fix sentences!

even though this section of the test is called, ironically, "sentence correction", you do not need to be able to fix the sentences; you only need to be able to select the correct answer choice from the choices given.
trying to fix the sentences is an irrelevant skill set; if you do too much of this, it will distract you from the skill set that you actually need. moreover, most users' attempts to fix sentences create numerous other errors, many of which are outside the scope of what is tested on the gmat.

Ron,
Thanks for the response. I wasnt actually trying to fix the sentence,I was trying to understand how "With" constructions work. I have seen few responses from your side in which Official answer starts with "With" and you admitted that this is new learning for you.I do not have the links, else I would have given it for your reference.Said that, I'll keep in mind what you have said.
Thanks again for the help. Good day!!

[RonPurewal]

Thanks for the response. I wasnt actually trying to fix the sentence,I was trying to understand how "With" constructions work.

in that case, you should still create your own sentence using this construction. in most cases, the existing sentences are way too complicated to risk changing.
as an analogy, imagine opening up a watch with a very complicated movement and trying to replace one of the gears with some other, random gear. as you might imagine, that wouldn't work very well -- even if your gear worked somewhat close to correctly, it would probably cause the rest of the movement to malfunction. the same is true for sentences with lots and lots of things going on.

I have seen few responses from your side in which Official answer starts with "With" and you admitted that this is new learning for you.I do not have the links, else I would have given it for your reference.Said that, I'll keep in mind what you have said.

i vaguely recollect something like that, but i don't think that any of those problems were from OG or gmat prep.

[justprashant]

Thanks for the response. I wasnt actually trying to fix the sentence,I was trying to understand how "With" constructions work.

in that case, you should still create your own sentence using this construction. in most cases, the existing sentences are way too complicated to risk changing.
as an analogy, imagine opening up a watch with a very complicated movement and trying to replace one of the gears with some other, random gear. as you might imagine, that wouldn't work very well -- even if your gear worked somewhat close to correctly, it would probably cause the rest of the movement to malfunction. the same is true for sentences with lots and lots of things going on.

I have seen few responses from your side in which Official answer starts with "With" and you admitted that this is new learning for you.I do not have the links, else I would have given it for your reference.Said that, I'll keep in mind what you have said.

i vaguely recollect something like that, but i don't think that any of those problems were from OG or gmat prep.

Thanks Ron

[RonPurewal]

sure.

[jp.jprasanna]

here are some splits.

* "namely" must be used either before a noun or before a noun phrase / clause.
you can't use it directly before an independent clause.
because of this principle, you can't say "namely they vary...". however, "namely that they vary..." and "namely considerable variation" are both fine.
this kills (a) and (e).

Ron thanks a lot for your explanations...!

One doubt with the above- Namely is an adverb right why can't it be directly used before an independent clause..

Is the below correct? then surprisingly is an adverb used before an independent clause .. Dave didn't even respond to the invitation

Although many people attended the banquet, surprisingly Dave didn't even respond to the invitation

Cheers

[tim]

Ron gave a rule, and your example does not disprove his rule; it simply doesn't work. If you're asking whether Ron's rule is true, the answer is yes..

[noor_dalhousie]

Hi Ron,

With regards to this question, I thought "it" in C as refering to the noun phrase "with some fraternal twins resembling each other greatly ...". Please let me know if I am thinking wrong.

[noor_dalhousie]

Further, please help me in understanding when can "it" not refer to any antecedent. For example, "it us surprising to know that you did this". In this sentence, "it" does not refer to any antecedent. Please help.

[RonPurewal]

Read here:
post49622.html#p49622