GMAT Question:- A recent review of pay scales indicates

[duyng9989]

Ron,

Isn't the meaning of the original sentence changed in every answer choice except for in A & D?

A states that X earn an average of 419 times more pay than Y (= Y + 419*Y)

Choices B C & E state that X earn 419 times of Y (= 419*Y)

Can you please elaborate? Thanks.

you are my new best friend.

i have been on a personal mission to heighten world awareness of the difference between x times as much as y and x times more than y for approximately the last fifteen years, so it's good to see that i have some assistance in my efforts.

yes, you are correct. so that we can commiserate about the verbal question writers' ignorance of mathematics, i'll give you the following response, which may or may not satisfy your gmat conscience:
these are sentence correction problems, not mathematics problems; therefore, their solutions will not rest upon mathematical nuances.

i don't like it any more than you do, but it is what it is. :(

Hi Ron:

In this question: GMAT still accept 5 times greater than:

The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970’s
A. extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
B. extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
C. extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
D. extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
E. extinction, now with numbers five times greater than

I think in safe case, I will find a structure that x times as ... as. :D.

My question is x times greater or x times more than? We use more or greater in here?

[RonPurewal]

My question is x times greater or x times more than? We use more or greater in here?

first off, the constructions you're trying to compare here are not comparable.

the sentence about CEO's says xxxx times more pay; the sentence about birds says their numbers were greater.

i don't think i can spell out an exact rule here -- nor would it probably be advisable even to try -- but, these constructions don't admit the same idioms.
for instance, i have more respect for person X than for person Y is a perfectly good sentence, but my respect for person X is more than my respect for person Y is not idiomatic. (in the latter sentence, you'd have to replace "more" with "greater".)

so, make sure that you learn about them separately. if you do, then you'll realize that the seeming contradiction isn't actually a contradiction.

the other difference is in the nature of the things themselves.
in the CEO sentence, "pay" is what you literally have "more" of. so, it's correct to write a sentence with "more pay".
on the other hand, in the bird sentence, you do not literally have "more numbers". so, if you were faced with a choice that said "more numbers", that choice would be wrong.

[thanghnvn]

[quote="Guest"]Please explain the answer of this

A recent review of pay scales indicates that CEO’s now earn an average of 419 times more pay than blue-collar workers, compared to a ratio of 42 times in 1980.

A. that CEO’s now earn an average of 419 times more pay than blue-collar workers, compared to a ratio of 42 times
B. that, on average, CEO’s now earn 419 times the pay of blue-collar workers, a ratio that compares to 42 times
C. that, on average, CEO’s now earn 419 times the pay of blue-collar workers, as compared to 42 times their pay, the ratio
D. CEO’s who now earn on average 419 times more pay than blue-collar workers, as compared to 42 times their pay, the ratio
E. CEO’s now earning an average of 419 times the pay of blue-collar workers, compared to the ratio of 42 times

I agree choice C is best but
in C "as compared " is a elliptical clause which mofifies the preceding clause and refers to "CEO's" . This make no sense.

logicaly, "as compared to " modifies "419 times". but grammartially, "as compared to" can not modifiy "419 times. there is no pattern of this kind in english grammar

pls, explain. thank

[RonPurewal]

logicaly, "as compared to " modifies "419 times". but grammartially, "as compared to" can not modifiy "419 times. there is no pattern of this kind in english grammar

pls, explain. thank

Correct answers are correct.

[thanghnvn]

"as compared to" can only be an elliptical subordinate clause which must modify a main clause and can not modify a noun

when asked about the job, I am very happy

the above sentence uses "when asked" which is similar to "as compared to"

in English we also have "as opposed to". But this phrase is an idiom and is used to connect a noun with another noun. this idiom is explained in Oxford dictionary.

"as compared to" is not an idiom and must obey the rule of grammar.

if gmat use this phrase, gmat considered this phrase an idiom. it is possible that after a long time of being used to connect a noun with a noun, this phrase become an idiom. This case is similar to the case of "as opposed to"

pls, explain the use of "as compared to"

[RonPurewal]

"As compared to", like "compared to", usually follows one statistic and precedes another.

The unemployment rate in Boomtown is only 3%, compared to the national average of 7%.

I don't know how to analyze this with grammar terms"”and, for the GMAT, there's no reason to bother.

[RonPurewal]

Remember"”Don't edit GMAC's sentences. Really, don't.

Making your own examples is good"”but they should be your own examples. When you make up example sentences, they should be SIMPLE sentences, meant to illustrate only one construction or concept at a time.

As for GMAC's problems are concerned, your hands should be full enough with the answer choices that are provided!

--

In response to your question"”In terms of pure mechanics, that's fine (it uses the same pieces as the correct answer), but "... that compares to ..." is still nonsense.

[cshen02]

So CEO's is the plural version of CEO? Then what about CEOs? Can they be used interchangeably?

[RonPurewal]

So CEO's is the plural version of CEO? Then what about CEOs? Can they be used interchangeably?

This is a style issue"”and thus a non-issue on this test.

Both versions are quite common. There are others, too (e.g., American newspapers will always contain "C.E.O.'s", with all three periods).

More generally, the GMAT does not test punctuation at all.

[FanPurewal]

Please help. Any difference between the usage of 'X times' and 'Y percentage'? Thanks!

i don't really have anything beyond what i already wrote in the post from which you quoted.

specifically:
you can't just write "42 times" by itself. it has to be 42 times something.
if it's 42 times something that was mentioned previously, or 42 times something that is in parallel structure to something that was mentioned previously, then you could use a relative pronoun (i.e., something like "42 times that in 1990", etc).

but you can't just leave "42 times" hanging out alone.

percentages, on the other hand, can be referenced by themselves (as long as context, somewhere else, clearly indicates what the percent is of).
for instance, you can say "80% of the X's are male, up from 67% five years ago". here, the second percentage is understood to be also "of the X's".

hi ron
i think the usage of *42 times* you mentioned above can only makes sense when the word *times* is a verb.

i'd like to post an instance

i found the context of sentence is the king in SC problems after i read every points, mentioned by Ron, for *42 times*.

am i right? i just want to confirm it.
thanks in advance :)

[eggpain24]

hi,RON

I got a confusion here in choice A

is the construction of "compared to" consistent with the use of "ved" construction, which is supposed to modifier the closet noun ?

therefore, what "compared to" modifies here is blue-collar wokers, thus generating illogical comparison between "people" and "ratio"?

Thank you !

[RonPurewal]

I don't know what "ved" means.

"(As) compared..." is placed as close to the actual statistic as possible. The words following "419 times" NEED to be there (else the statistic would be impossible to clarify).
The correct answer is structured in essentially the same way, so you know this part isn't the problem.

Note that "a ratio of 42 times..." is a redundant construction.

[eggpain24]

I don't know what "ved" means.

"(As) compared..." is placed as close to the actual statistic as possible. The words following "419 times" NEED to be there (else the statistic would be impossible to clarify).
The correct answer is structured in essentially the same way, so you know this part isn't the problem.

Note that "a ratio of 42 times..." is a redundant construction.

well, sorry for not clarify what " ved" mean
"ved" stands for "past participle"

in choice A
is ”more pay than blue-collar workers“ serving as a modifier to modify the ”419 times“， which can make “compared to ” modify the whole part of “ 419 times more pay than blue-collar workers”

[FanPurewal]

Please help. Any difference between the usage of 'X times' and 'Y percentage'? Thanks!

i don't really have anything beyond what i already wrote in the post from which you quoted.

specifically:
you can't just write "42 times" by itself. it has to be 42 times something.
if it's 42 times something that was mentioned previously, or 42 times something that is in parallel structure to something that was mentioned previously, then you could use a relative pronoun (i.e., something like "42 times that in 1990", etc).

but you can't just leave "42 times" hanging out alone.

percentages, on the other hand, can be referenced by themselves (as long as context, somewhere else, clearly indicates what the percent is of).
for instance, you can say "80% of the X's are male, up from 67% five years ago". here, the second percentage is understood to be also "of the X's".

hi ron
i think the usage of *42 times* you mentioned above can only makes sense when the word *times* is a verb.

i'd like to post an instance

i found the context of sentence is the king in SC problems after i read every points, mentioned by Ron, for *42 times*.

am i right? i just want to confirm it.
thanks in advance :)

maybe my post was missed :D

[RonPurewal]

What exactly are you asking? I can't tell.

Perhaps you can try to write your question so that it fits in a single line. That should help.

(If you're asking about which grammatical label should be given to "times", I can't help you there)