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RonPurewal
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Re: Re:

by RonPurewal Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:33 am

phuong, glad the forum is helping you.

phuonglink Wrote:I come from a very far country (not many people have ever heard of its name i guess) where gmat coures are not provided in my place.


which country?
we're pretty smart/knowledgeable people here -- it's doubtful that there is an entire country out there that has escaped our notice this whole time.
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Re: Re:

by phuonglink Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:59 am

RonPurewal Wrote:phuong, glad the forum is helping you.

phuonglink Wrote:I come from a very far country (not many people have ever heard of its name i guess) where gmat coures are not provided in my place.


which country?
we're pretty smart/knowledgeable people here -- it's doubtful that there is an entire country out there that has escaped our notice this whole time.


hi Ron, have you ever heard the city called Ho Chi Minh City (Vietnam)? Please be assured that i have no doubt about the knowledge of people in this forum.
Started to learn gmat last year, I spent US$900 for 3 courses with the promise that people who dont need to understand the meaning in verbal test are able to get high score by learning a bunch of tips and by guessing. Money is not all. The important thing i've regreted most is the time i spent studying in the wrong way with wrong materials (non official material). Tutors are those who have never taken gmat before so i and other people decided to stop these courses and grouped together to study gmat. Now there is only me left in this race and what lessons i've drawn from the preparation are as follows:
- SC: meaning is first (Thursday with Ron) , then grammar, then some tips is necessary
- CR: we need to totally understand the whole meaning and the relationship between other phrase/clause to the whole context. reading comprehension and Negate technique are fundamental requirements
- RC: learning new vocabulary is very effective way to speed up reading skill. Find out main points of passages and why other supported idea are there are the target in RC (Thursday with Ron)
* Using officiall source question + explantion, seeking explanations from reputative people on gmat site.

After reading Mahattan staff's explantions and other feedbacks, i realised that i would have a very long road to walk in. But i guess i've found the right way to learn and to me I find myself lucky. In addition, gmat is worth to learn because it is not only a standard test to pursue a Master degree but also is a tool to help me think more strategically, logically and work more efficiently.
In sum, i'm on the way to correct my brain so if i make mistakes please correct me. I'm appreciated all your comments
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Re: Re:

by jnelson0612 Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:01 am

phuonglink Wrote:hi Ron, have you ever heard the city called Ho Chi Minh City (Vietnam)? Please be assured that i have no doubt about the knowledge of people in this forum.
Started to learn gmat last year, I spent US$900 for 3 courses with the promise that people who dont need to understand the meaning in verbal test are able to get high score by learning a bunch of tips and by guessing. Money is not all. The important thing i've regreted most is the time i spent studying in the wrong way with wrong materials (non official material). Tutors are those who have never taken gmat before so i and other people decided to stop these courses and grouped together to study gmat. Now there is only me left in this race and what lessons i've drawn from the preparation are as follows:
- SC: meaning is first (Thursday with Ron) , then grammar, then some tips is necessary
- CR: we need to totally understand the whole meaning and the relationship between other phrase/clause to the whole context. reading comprehension and Negate technique are fundamental requirements
- RC: learning new vocabulary is very effective way to speed up reading skill. Find out main points of passages and why other supported idea are there are the target in RC (Thursday with Ron)
* Using officiall source question + explantion, seeking explanations from reputative people on gmat site.

After reading Mahattan staff's explantions and other feedbacks, i realised that i would have a very long road to walk in. But i guess i've found the right way to learn and to me I find myself lucky. In addition, gmat is worth to learn because it is not only a standard test to pursue a Master degree but also is a tool to help me think more strategically, logically and work more efficiently.
In sum, i'm on the way to correct my brain so if i make mistakes please correct me. I'm appreciated all your comments


Hi phuong,
I have been to Ho Chi Minh City a few times for business, and I suspect that many of our instructors have traveled in Vietnam. It's nice to meet someone from there.

I'd like to comment on one of your points above. To me, grammar is the most important aspect of sentence correction. The GMAT tests particular grammar rules over and over again, and if you know those rules you can efficiently attack and eliminate answer choices.

To improve in reading comp, it helps to read articles from good periodicals, such as The Economist, The New York Times, etc.

I'm glad you have joined us in this forum!
Jamie Nelson
ManhattanGMAT Instructor
phuonglink
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Re: Re:

by phuonglink Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:14 am

jnelson0612 Wrote:
phuonglink Wrote:hi Ron, have you ever heard the city called Ho Chi Minh City (Vietnam)? Please be assured that i have no doubt about the knowledge of people in this forum.
Started to learn gmat last year, I spent US$900 for 3 courses with the promise that people who dont need to understand the meaning in verbal test are able to get high score by learning a bunch of tips and by guessing. Money is not all. The important thing i've regreted most is the time i spent studying in the wrong way with wrong materials (non official material). Tutors are those who have never taken gmat before so i and other people decided to stop these courses and grouped together to study gmat. Now there is only me left in this race and what lessons i've drawn from the preparation are as follows:
- SC: meaning is first (Thursday with Ron) , then grammar, then some tips is necessary
- CR: we need to totally understand the whole meaning and the relationship between other phrase/clause to the whole context. reading comprehension and Negate technique are fundamental requirements
- RC: learning new vocabulary is very effective way to speed up reading skill. Find out main points of passages and why other supported idea are there are the target in RC (Thursday with Ron)
* Using officiall source question + explantion, seeking explanations from reputative people on gmat site.

After reading Mahattan staff's explantions and other feedbacks, i realised that i would have a very long road to walk in. But i guess i've found the right way to learn and to me I find myself lucky. In addition, gmat is worth to learn because it is not only a standard test to pursue a Master degree but also is a tool to help me think more strategically, logically and work more efficiently.
In sum, i'm on the way to correct my brain so if i make mistakes please correct me. I'm appreciated all your comments


Hi phuong,
I have been to Ho Chi Minh City a few times for business, and I suspect that many of our instructors have traveled in Vietnam. It's nice to meet someone from there.

I'd like to comment on one of your points above. To me, grammar is the most important aspect of sentence correction. The GMAT tests particular grammar rules over and over again, and if you know those rules you can efficiently attack and eliminate answer choices.

To improve in reading comp, it helps to read articles from good periodicals, such as The Economist, The New York Times, etc.

I'm glad you have joined us in this forum!

hi Jamie, thank you for your guidance. I'm noting your tips to my notebook and will follow these things as daily practice. If you travel to my city and need help in something, please contact me (my yahoo id is heymickey2404). I hope i can do something to help you all as the way you are doing with our candidate like us.
RonPurewal
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Re: Re:

by RonPurewal Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:25 am

glad jamie's explanation helped.

btw, basically 100% of americans will be familiar with vietnam and HMC/saigon -- partly because it's an increasingly popular tourist destination and an increasingly important trade partner, but also, unfortunately, partly because of the war fought between those two countries in the '60's-'70's.
generally, americans (as a general population -- educated americans will be at least passingly familiar with just about every country in the world) are somewhat less familiar with neighboring countries, such as cambodia and laos, but vietnam is a known quantity here.
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Re: Re:

by phuonglink Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:37 pm

RonPurewal Wrote:glad jamie's explanation helped.

btw, basically 100% of americans will be familiar with vietnam and HMC/saigon -- partly because it's an increasingly popular tourist destination and an increasingly important trade partner, but also, unfortunately, partly because of the war fought between those two countries in the '60's-'70's.
generally, americans (as a general population -- educated americans will be at least passingly familiar with just about every country in the world) are somewhat less familiar with neighboring countries, such as cambodia and laos, but vietnam is a known quantity here.

how embarrassed i am, thanks Ron and Nelson for your information. I guess it is my thought that has been outdated. :">
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Re: Re:

by RonPurewal Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:04 pm

all good.
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Re: GMAT Question:- A recent review of pay scales indicates

by thanghnvn Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:42 am

A recent review of pay scales indicates that , on average, CEO’s now earn 419 times the pay of blue-collar workers, as compared to 42 times their pay, the ratio in 1980.

above is correct choice. I want to understand the use of COMMA+PHRASE. I do not understand the use of this kind of modifier.

COMMA+PHRASE can be used to modify a noun phrase immediately preceding as the case in this question.

COMMA+PHRASE can be used to modify the entire preceding clause in the following:

I learn gmat , making my thinking better. (COMMA PHRASE is DOING PHRASE here)

I learn Enlish in most of free time in the year 2011, a language most persons learn. (inhere, COMMA PHRASE=noun phrase which modify a remote noun.

I do not understand how to use COMMA PHRASE . any other cases for using COMMA PHRASE. pls, help me.

When I read this problem, I am afraid because I do not know COMMA+COMPARED should modify what.

Pls, Ron, member, explain how to use COMMA PHRASE.
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Re: GMAT Question:- A recent review of pay scales indicates

by RonPurewal Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:39 am

I learn gmat , making my thinking better. (COMMA PHRASE is DOING PHRASE here)


this is workable.

I learn Enlish in most of free time in the year 2011, a language most persons learn. (inhere, COMMA PHRASE=noun phrase which modify a remote noun.


this sentence is wrong. "a language" should be placed next to "english":
during most of my free time in 2011, i learned english, a language that many people learn.


Pls, Ron, member, explain how to use COMMA PHRASE.


this question would be impossible to answer in a single post, because there are so many different types of things that can follow a comma.

if your question is this general, then your best bet is to google it and examine, in detail, the results on the first few pages that show up in your search.
for instance, when i google "use of commas" or "modifiers separated by commas", the following page is one of the first to show up:
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/02/
try reading through the examples on that page -- and making up examples of your own containing the same structure.
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Re: GMAT Question:- A recent review of pay scales indicates

by davetzulin Fri May 18, 2012 1:30 am

picking the brain of the experts on strategy

A. that CEO’s now earn an average of 419 times more pay than blue-collar workers, compared to a ratio of 42 times
B. that, on average, CEO’s now earn 419 times the pay of blue-collar workers, a ratio that compares to 42 times


when I saw that modifier move around I immediately jumped on it. And, since I was doing this under timed conditions, I felt that B was a slight meaning change from A.

for A it is saying average of 419 times more pay, so the average of a ratio (a noun)
for B it is saying CEOs earn on average 419 more pay. so now "on average" is an adverbial prep modifier, modifying an action occurring on average

already that is a red-flag to me because how often can you go from modifying a noun then modifying an action and end up with an identical result?

OK, so now, after looking at it for some time i agree there is no fundamental difference, but how can you quickly determine that? And say you were taking the test and were stumped on that modifier moving around would you give up and look for something else?

That is pretty much my biggest problem, getting stuck on a particular aspect of an answer choice and really not getting anywhere with it.

i kno i can't learn every rule, nevermind MASTERING every rule , so I think my best approach now is to try and do the same things the experts do when they approach the problem.
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Re: GMAT Question:- A recent review of pay scales indicates

by RonPurewal Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:14 am

davetzulin Wrote:OK, so now, after looking at it for some time i agree there is no fundamental difference, but how can you quickly determine that?


well, see, there's the issue here: the way that you think about these things -- at least when you label them as "academic" -- isn't like the way most people think.

i mean is this: if generalized, your question corresponds to a mental state that is something like, "my default state is to notice minute differences in meaning first, before noticing similarities".
that's a rather unusual way of thinking, largely restricted to people who do lots of stuff involving formal logic/reasoning (programming, mathematics, certain types of philosophical argument, etc.)
the default state of most of humanity, on the other hand, is to find similarities, not differences, by default. (this is the reason why so much poetry involves abstract comparisons -- "shall i compare thee to a summer's day", and all that -- and hardly any poetry focuses on the minute differences between otherwise similar things.)

this is the whole idea behind the "splits" method of approaching sentence correction problems -- the idea that most people aren't going to notice differences unless those differences specifically occur as "splits" in the answer options.
if your default assumption is to see minute differences, then, ironically, you should probably dispense with the splits method altogether, because you'll already be noticing those differences without having to make the effort.

And say you were taking the test and were stumped on that modifier moving around would you give up and look for something else?


QUESTION:
And say you were taking the test and were stumped on _________, would you give up and look for something else?


ANSWER:
yes.

That is pretty much my biggest problem, getting stuck on a particular aspect of an answer choice and really not getting anywhere with it.


well, dave, unfortunately, you are currently up against a test whose entire purpose is to favor people who "hit it or quit it", that is, who make decisions without too much deliberation. (this is why there are so many problems and so little time to solve them.)
notably, that includes making the decision to quit -- FAST -- if you are stuck. on anything.

i kno i can't learn every rule, nevermind MASTERING every rule , so I think my best approach now is to try and do the same things the experts do when they approach the problem.


yes and no. this is going to depend on which expert, and on how much your background has in common with his or hers.
i, for instance, am (among other things) a professional writer and editor with many years of experience. i don't consciously know any "rules" of the english language, save for the most basic ones (like singular subject/singular verb and so forth); i solve 100% of sentence correction problems by simply looking at the choices and intuitively knowing which are right and which are wrong.
... in precisely the same way you would watch an injured person's gait and, without knowing any "rules" about how people are supposed to walk, immediately and intuitively know that you were looking at an injured person.
(by the way, this is also why i always supply so many examples when i explain things -- i don't actually know any of the objective principles consciously. i have to think about tons and tons of relevant examples that are correct and incorrect, and derive whatever "rule" or principle from those examples.)

where i'm going with this is that "try[ing] to do the same things the experts do" is not a good idea if, say, a particular expert at hand is a native-english-speaking professional writer and the student is a non-writer for whom english is a second (or third or fourth) language.
on the other hand, if you find an expert who has lots of background in common with you -- like, if you are a second-language speaker of english and you find an expert who is also a second-language speaker of english -- then you've got something there.
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Re: GMAT Question:- A recent review of pay scales indicates

by thanghnvn Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:41 pm

////

hi Ron, have you ever heard the city called Ho Chi Minh City (Vietnam)? Please be assured that i have no doubt about the knowledge of people in this forum.
Started to learn gmat last year, I spent US$900 for 3 courses with the promise that people who dont need to understand the meaning in verbal test are able to get high score by learning a bunch of tips and by guessing. Money is not all. The important thing i've regreted most is the time i spent studying in the wrong way with wrong materials (non official material). Tutors are those who have never taken gmat before so i and other people decided to stop these courses and grouped together to study gmat. Now there is only me left in this race and what lessons i've drawn from the preparation are as follows:
- SC: meaning is first (Thursday with Ron) , then grammar, then some tips is necessary
- CR: we need to totally understand the whole meaning and the relationship between other phrase/clause to the whole context. reading comprehension and Negate technique are fundamental requirements
- RC: learning new vocabulary is very effective way to speed up reading skill. Find out main points of passages and why other supported idea are there are the target in RC (Thursday with Ron)
* Using officiall source question + explantion, seeking explanations from reputative people on gmat site.
After reading Mahattan staff's explantions and other feedbacks, i realised that i would have a very long road to walk in. But i guess i've found the right way to learn and to me I find myself lucky. In addition, gmat is worth to learn because it is not only a standard test to pursue a Master degree but also is a tool to help me think more strategically, logically and work more efficiently.
In sum, i'm on the way to correct my brain so if i make mistakes please correct me. I'm appreciated all your comments
///////

where to fine the "thursday with Ron, Meaning is first" pls advise.

second thing.

in the original sentence pls, explain the grammatical fuction of "as compared...."
this phrase can modify a noun, or a clause. I do not understand, pls, help.
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Re: GMAT Question:- A recent review of pay scales indicates

by RonPurewal Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:20 am

thanghnvn Wrote:where to fine the "thursday with Ron, Meaning is first" pls advise.


http://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm
(this is also the first hit if you search for "thursdays with ron" on google, or on whatever search engine)

there is no particular session dealing with meaning, because meaning affects EVERY sentence correction problem. it plays a role in every one of the lectures dealing with sentence correction.

in the original sentence pls, explain the grammatical fuction of "as compared...."
this phrase can modify a noun, or a clause. I do not understand, pls, help.


i don't know what the precise grammatical role is, but it's generally "STATISTIC 1 as compared to STATISTIC 2" or "OBSERVATION 1 as compared to OBSERVATION 2".
i've never seen a case in which a precise grammatical assignment would be even the least bit helpful, so i'd suggest not worrying about that.
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Re:

by tanyatomar Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:10 pm

RonPurewal Wrote:choice b is badly worded: 'compares to 42 times in 1980' seems to say that, on forty-two different occasions in 1980, the ceo:blue-collar ratio reached 419:1. this is not what we are trying to say.

more generally, when speaking about ratios as is done here, you cannot leave 'times' hanging like this. sometimes you can use pronouns - the height of the sears tower is more than four times that of the statue of liberty - but you can't use empty space.

choice c exhibits proper usage of 'times' followed by their pay. it also uses the ratio, a correct identification of exactly what is being described.




hi Ron,
what about "their" in C : 42 times their pay, is it not ambiguous pronoun. Whose pay? blue collar workers or CEO's own older pay??

Thanks a lot,
Tanya
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Re: Re:

by RonPurewal Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:07 am

tanyatomar Wrote:hi Ron,
what about "their" in C : 42 times their pay, is it not ambiguous pronoun. Whose pay? blue collar workers or CEO's own older pay??

Thanks a lot,
Tanya


in this case, it's quite clear from context that both figures are some integer times the blue-collar workers' pay. therefore, the pronoun is not "ambiguous".

in general, do not worry about "ambiguity" in GMAT pronouns, unless it is actually impossible to tell the meaning of the pronoun from context. (i will bet good money that this won't happen.)
the vast majority of technically "ambiguous" GMAT pronouns are just fine -- as long as their meaning is clear in context -- so you should ignore the idea of "pronoun ambiguity" completely.
not only will thinking about that idea make things more complicated, but it's a lot more likely to make you get problems wrong than to get them right.