Q25 - Helena: Extroversion, or sociability,

[clarafok]

hello,

could someone please explain why the answer is D and not B?

thanks!!!

[sbuzzetto10]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. This is how I looked at it..

Jay argues that Helena's conclusion is wrong because some children adopted by extroverts remain introverted no matter the age at adoption. We can tell that he thinks she's saying that biological factors play absolutely no role in a child being extroverted because he uses as his evidence an exception to her general statement. He points out that being extroverted or introverted does not depend soley on environmental factors (i.e. the adopted parents). Helena of course is not saying this.

B would be incorrect because if he thought she meant most but not all children w biological parents are introverted become extroverted when adopted by extroverts, he would not have been concerned about pointing out an exception since "most" allows for such exceptions.

[bbirdwell]

I agree! I would add this:

Helena says that biology does not determine extroversion. She cites as evidence the fact that adopted introverts are less introverted than those not adopted.

Jay says "You're wrong, because SOME adopted introverts stay introverted."

The first thing to notice is that Jay's evidence is not incompatible with Helena's argument. A good clue to discovering this is that she doesn't say that these adoptees are NOT introverted. She says they are LESS introverted.

So what is Jay saying, really? He's insisting that biology plays a role here.

Now, if he thinks this is a relevant point to make, what must he think about what Helena said? Well, if he thinks a good counter to Helena's statement is "biology plays a role here," then he think that Helena said "Biology has nothing to do with this."

That's what (D) says. Remember, it's not what Helena actually said. What she said was "biology does not determine," which is not the same thing as saying "biology plays no role."

For example, your LSAT score will not determine whether you are accepted to the school of your choice, but it will certainly play a role. (there are other factors to consider -- 99th percentile scorers are rejected from top 10 schools every day).

[clarafok]

thank you!

[Raiderblue17]

So, I think everybody, 600 views, myself included are reading too much into this one. I missed it, but on further reveiw should have EASILY gotten it. I emphasize easily for EVERYBODY.

Helena's conclusion is that Extroversion is not biologically determined. Its the first line as she supports the conclusion with her examples.

Jay says, IMMEDIATELY: Your conclusion does not follow, as in, ITS NOT CORRECT! So what's not correct? Biological determination of being an extrover/introvert!

I feel like a COMPLETE DUMMY, but this is a pretty easy question when you find the conclusion. which we MUST find in competing arguments b/c that is normally the disagreement!

Smile on Happy PEople

[woof90]

Helena's conclusion is that Extroversion is not biologically determined. Its the first line as she supports the conclusion with her examples.

Jay says, IMMEDIATELY: Your conclusion does not follow, as in, ITS NOT CORRECT! So what's not correct? Biological determination of being an extrover/introvert!

Raiderblue17, I feel that your approach can be misleading, because using your tip, we must be looking for an answer choice that is identical to Helena's conclusion that "Extroversion is not biologically determined." After all, that is what Jay seems to contest. But in fact, Jay's claim is not that this conclusion is false, but rather that this conclusion does not follow from her premiss. So we are looking for an answer choice that is slightly different. We want an answer choice that will be refuted by the exception cases which Jay cites in his response.

I think bbirdwell was on point when he said the following:

What she said was "biology does not determine," which is not the same thing as saying "biology plays no role."

To me, it seems the issue is that Helena's conclusion can be read ambiguously. It could mean that
a) extroversion is at least not fully biologically determined; or
b) biological factors have no role to play in extroversion

(clearly, (a) was the more logical reading of Helena's argument, whereas Jay understand her to mean (b))

Hope that clears it up for many who were confused!

[pewals13]

I think for these types of questions the best way to approach them is to ask:

"what conception of the other person's point would make the most sense in the context of the evidence being provided by the speaker?"

Jay's use of "some" suggests he is providing evidence of an exception to a general rule. (C) is a conception most clearly undermined with this evidence.

See PT28-1-25 for a similar question where this approach works.

[WesleyC316]

I was struggling between B and D at first, but later I realized that if Jay interpreted Helena's remarks as B, he wouldn't have responded in this way, since "Some of these children remained introverted" is actually compatible with "most but not all children with introverted parents become extroverted", which is exactly what B says.