I have been preparing for the last one year almost - on and off. For the last few weeks, I started doing the OG again based on your advice Stacey. Yesterday, I started taking full length tests. I feel better about the pace on verbal in general and overall more confident.
So yesterday I took a powerprep test and scored a 710 (Q 45; V 42). I tried to contain my excitement, which died today when I took the MGMAT 1 and got a 580 (Q 34; V 35). I was hating the math as I was doing it today. And almost reached a point where I was clicking through the last few questions in quant. Ironically, I thought I was doing very well on verbal but landed with a mere 35. When I was doing the powerprep yesterday, the math was very unfamiliar and I found some of the questions quite tough, and thought I had blown it. The verbal was way too simple and a lot of the CR and one RC reappeared from the OG. surprisingly, I got 45 on quant with 16 incorrect and 42 on verbal with 8 incorrect. Yes, I am aware that the level of difficulty varies.
This will be my seventh attempt and I am hoping to take the test end of first week of dec.
I am feeling very demotivated after taking the MGMAT today. Please advice what should be my approach during this crucial phase of test taking.
:( :?
GMAT Forum
7 postsPage 1 of 1
- mg
- mg
still worried
Just pushing this back to the top of the rack. Stacey - please comment.
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9360
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
I answer questions from the bottom up (oldest first), not the top down, so don't reply again - you just put yourself later in the queue! :) Also, just FYI, I only answer questions in this folder twice a week; we have a lot of other folders as well.
Did you take PowerPrep or GMATPrep? PowerPrep is the old version and is NOT based on the official test algorithm. The questions are also older and the pool of questions is narrower. GMATPrep, on the other hand, uses the official test algorithm and the questions are much more recent. It's the best indicator of your likely performance on test day.
So there's a big difference to my advice depending upon which version you took! I'm guessing you took PowerPrep simply because you said you recognized some OG questions, and that's a lot more common on PowerPrep than GMATPrep. If you did take PowerPrep, then we need to discount the results a little bit.
At the same time, our test is not exactly like the real thing either (for one thing, we don't write the real test, as the writers of PowerPrep / GMATPrep did / do). Also, people often feel our quant is harder because we don't include experimental questions. On math, you usually get some little "mental breaks" via an experimental question that is easy for you to do.
So, what do you do?
It's important to go back and try to figure out why your performance was so much lower. Did you take them both under full official conditions? (30m each for two essays, 10m break, 75m quant, 10m break, 75m verbal) If not, how did you take them? Did you take them both at the same time of day? How was your stamina? How did you feel toward the middle and end of the verbal section? Did you have something to eat and drink on the breaks? Did you get up, walk around, and stretch?
How was your timing? Did you generally move steadily through the test, giving appropriate time and attention to each question? Or did you have to rush at times and possibly make random guesses? If you did have to rush and/or make random guesses, on how many questions would you say you did that? Did you do it on a lot of questions in a row or were the guesses scattered?
What other differences did you notice between the two tests? Did you have strings of wrong answers in a row anywhere? If so, where did they show up and how many in a row were there? What other differences can you think of? Anything, no matter how small, and no matter whether you think it wouldn't have made a difference to your score.
Oh, and I just noticed something. You took the second test the day after you took the first test. That right there is going to bring your score down. You wouldn't run a second marathon the day after your first marathon, right? This test is like a mental marathon. :)
Did you take PowerPrep or GMATPrep? PowerPrep is the old version and is NOT based on the official test algorithm. The questions are also older and the pool of questions is narrower. GMATPrep, on the other hand, uses the official test algorithm and the questions are much more recent. It's the best indicator of your likely performance on test day.
So there's a big difference to my advice depending upon which version you took! I'm guessing you took PowerPrep simply because you said you recognized some OG questions, and that's a lot more common on PowerPrep than GMATPrep. If you did take PowerPrep, then we need to discount the results a little bit.
At the same time, our test is not exactly like the real thing either (for one thing, we don't write the real test, as the writers of PowerPrep / GMATPrep did / do). Also, people often feel our quant is harder because we don't include experimental questions. On math, you usually get some little "mental breaks" via an experimental question that is easy for you to do.
So, what do you do?
It's important to go back and try to figure out why your performance was so much lower. Did you take them both under full official conditions? (30m each for two essays, 10m break, 75m quant, 10m break, 75m verbal) If not, how did you take them? Did you take them both at the same time of day? How was your stamina? How did you feel toward the middle and end of the verbal section? Did you have something to eat and drink on the breaks? Did you get up, walk around, and stretch?
How was your timing? Did you generally move steadily through the test, giving appropriate time and attention to each question? Or did you have to rush at times and possibly make random guesses? If you did have to rush and/or make random guesses, on how many questions would you say you did that? Did you do it on a lot of questions in a row or were the guesses scattered?
What other differences did you notice between the two tests? Did you have strings of wrong answers in a row anywhere? If so, where did they show up and how many in a row were there? What other differences can you think of? Anything, no matter how small, and no matter whether you think it wouldn't have made a difference to your score.
Oh, and I just noticed something. You took the second test the day after you took the first test. That right there is going to bring your score down. You wouldn't run a second marathon the day after your first marathon, right? This test is like a mental marathon. :)
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- mg
worried
HI Stacey - Thanks much for your reponse. I will make sure I keep my posts later in the queue. Please see my response inline.
I answer questions from the bottom up (oldest first), not the top down, so don't reply again - you just put yourself later in the queue! :) Also, just FYI, I only answer questions in this folder twice a week; we have a lot of other folders as well.
Can you please advise which are the other good folders to use?
Did you take PowerPrep or GMATPrep? PowerPrep is the old version and is NOT based on the official test algorithm. The questions are also older and the pool of questions is narrower. GMATPrep, on the other hand, uses the official test algorithm and the questions are much more recent. It's the best indicator of your likely performance on test day.
I took the Gmat Prep. Yes, I understand that Powerprep is the old one. Being an old-timer at GMAT, I guess I am stuck with the old lingo. I am certain I took the GmatPrep.
So there's a big difference to my advice depending upon which version you took! I'm guessing you took PowerPrep simply because you said you recognized some OG questions, and that's a lot more common on PowerPrep than GMATPrep. If you did take PowerPrep, then we need to discount the results a little bit.
At the same time, our test is not exactly like the real thing either (for one thing, we don't write the real test, as the writers of PowerPrep / GMATPrep did / do). Also, people often feel our quant is harder because we don't include experimental questions. On math, you usually get some little "mental breaks" via an experimental question that is easy for you to do.
That is reassuring.
So, what do you do?
It's important to go back and try to figure out why your performance was so much lower. Did you take them both under full official conditions? (30m each for two essays, 10m break, 75m quant, 10m break, 75m verbal) If not, how did you take them? Did you take them both at the same time of day? How was your stamina? How did you feel toward the middle and end of the verbal section? Did you have something to eat and drink on the breaks? Did you get up, walk around, and stretch?
Yes, I took the test under timed conditions, with AWA, with the timed break. Stamina on Day 1 was fine, although I did feel kinda heavy headed towards the end of the test. Actually, I was very tired on the day of the first test and took it late at night. The second test was in the evening and I ate a filafel before taking the test (which I realize was a bad idea). I did have almonds and herbal tea in the break and I did get up and streatched. I also did some deep breathing and washed my face.
How was your timing? Did you generally move steadily through the test, giving appropriate time and attention to each question? Or did you have to rush at times and possibly make random guesses? If you did have to rush and/or make random guesses, on how many questions would you say you did that? Did you do it on a lot of questions in a row or were the guesses scattered?
Timing was fine on Day 1. In Quant on Day 1, I think I felt a little rushed on Day 1. I finished verbal 10 mins earlier since I saw several questions repeated from OG. On Day 2, I was generally tired from the previous day. Quant was a pain. I clicked through the last 10 or 12 questions and I think I may have guessed 4 or 5 from 1 to 25; They were scattered. I actually thoroughly enjoyed verbal and thought I was doing very well. Unfortunately, I saw several incorrect questions and a score of 35. questions 2,3,4 were incorrect and then there were several in a row.
What other differences did you notice between the two tests? Did you have strings of wrong answers in a row anywhere? If so, where did they show up and how many in a row were there? What other differences can you think of? Anything, no matter how small, and no matter whether you think it wouldn't have made a difference to your score.
I need a miracle. I need a miracle. :(
Oh, and I just noticed something. You took the second test the day after you took the first test. That right there is going to bring your score down. You wouldn't run a second marathon the day after your first marathon, right? This test is like a mental marathon. :)
I agree. What is the best method. Shall I take a day's break between each test then and use the break day to revise and go through the test?
I answer questions from the bottom up (oldest first), not the top down, so don't reply again - you just put yourself later in the queue! :) Also, just FYI, I only answer questions in this folder twice a week; we have a lot of other folders as well.
Can you please advise which are the other good folders to use?
Did you take PowerPrep or GMATPrep? PowerPrep is the old version and is NOT based on the official test algorithm. The questions are also older and the pool of questions is narrower. GMATPrep, on the other hand, uses the official test algorithm and the questions are much more recent. It's the best indicator of your likely performance on test day.
I took the Gmat Prep. Yes, I understand that Powerprep is the old one. Being an old-timer at GMAT, I guess I am stuck with the old lingo. I am certain I took the GmatPrep.
So there's a big difference to my advice depending upon which version you took! I'm guessing you took PowerPrep simply because you said you recognized some OG questions, and that's a lot more common on PowerPrep than GMATPrep. If you did take PowerPrep, then we need to discount the results a little bit.
At the same time, our test is not exactly like the real thing either (for one thing, we don't write the real test, as the writers of PowerPrep / GMATPrep did / do). Also, people often feel our quant is harder because we don't include experimental questions. On math, you usually get some little "mental breaks" via an experimental question that is easy for you to do.
That is reassuring.
So, what do you do?
It's important to go back and try to figure out why your performance was so much lower. Did you take them both under full official conditions? (30m each for two essays, 10m break, 75m quant, 10m break, 75m verbal) If not, how did you take them? Did you take them both at the same time of day? How was your stamina? How did you feel toward the middle and end of the verbal section? Did you have something to eat and drink on the breaks? Did you get up, walk around, and stretch?
Yes, I took the test under timed conditions, with AWA, with the timed break. Stamina on Day 1 was fine, although I did feel kinda heavy headed towards the end of the test. Actually, I was very tired on the day of the first test and took it late at night. The second test was in the evening and I ate a filafel before taking the test (which I realize was a bad idea). I did have almonds and herbal tea in the break and I did get up and streatched. I also did some deep breathing and washed my face.
How was your timing? Did you generally move steadily through the test, giving appropriate time and attention to each question? Or did you have to rush at times and possibly make random guesses? If you did have to rush and/or make random guesses, on how many questions would you say you did that? Did you do it on a lot of questions in a row or were the guesses scattered?
Timing was fine on Day 1. In Quant on Day 1, I think I felt a little rushed on Day 1. I finished verbal 10 mins earlier since I saw several questions repeated from OG. On Day 2, I was generally tired from the previous day. Quant was a pain. I clicked through the last 10 or 12 questions and I think I may have guessed 4 or 5 from 1 to 25; They were scattered. I actually thoroughly enjoyed verbal and thought I was doing very well. Unfortunately, I saw several incorrect questions and a score of 35. questions 2,3,4 were incorrect and then there were several in a row.
What other differences did you notice between the two tests? Did you have strings of wrong answers in a row anywhere? If so, where did they show up and how many in a row were there? What other differences can you think of? Anything, no matter how small, and no matter whether you think it wouldn't have made a difference to your score.
I need a miracle. I need a miracle. :(
Oh, and I just noticed something. You took the second test the day after you took the first test. That right there is going to bring your score down. You wouldn't run a second marathon the day after your first marathon, right? This test is like a mental marathon. :)
I agree. What is the best method. Shall I take a day's break between each test then and use the break day to revise and go through the test?
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9360
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
ok, so a couple of things.
- your verbal score on PowerPrep was likely inflated a bit because you saw OG questions that you remembered. That helps you not just on those questions but on other questions as well - because it reduces the time pressure (you don't need much time to answer a problem if you remember it from last time). Follow a few guidelines to minimize the chance of artificially inflating your score via question repeats. First, anytime you see a problem that you remember (and this means: I know the answer or I'm pretty sure I remember the answer, not just "hmm, this looks familiar..."), immediately look at the timer and make yourself sit there for the full length of time for that question type. This way, you don't artificially give yourself more time than you should have. Second, think about whether you got this problem right the last time. If you did, get it right again this time. If you didn't, get it wrong again. If you *completely honestly* think that you would get it right this time around if it were a new question (even though you got it wrong last time) because you've studied that area and improved, then get it right this time.
- your quant score on MGMAT was deflated by the fact that you ran out of time and had to guess on so many. You need to be REALLY careful that you don't allow yourself to get too sucked in on the official test. Yes, the official test includes experimentals, so you get some "mental breaks" - but you also know the official test actually counts, and so if you have the bad habit of hanging on a little too long sometimes, that can often get magnified under the pressure of the official test.
- Re: the folders, it just depends what question you want to ask. For the questions you're asking right now, this is the appropriate folder. If you have questions about specific problems, put those in the appropriately titled folder - eg, a verbal question from a ManhattanGMAT CAT exam should go in the MGMAT CAT Verbal folder. There's also a separate folder to ask questions about admissions.
I generally recommend against taking more than 1 test a week. If you are doing the kind of analysis you should be doing, it takes at least 6 hours to go over one test, and it can take 10-30 (or more) additional hours to go review various things that showed up as weaknesses on the test. The tests are used to assess progress, not to make progress. You mostly make your progress via the studying you do between the tests. Early on in the process, I recommend a test only about once every 3 weeks. For someone close to the official test date, as you are, I recommend once a week.
- your verbal score on PowerPrep was likely inflated a bit because you saw OG questions that you remembered. That helps you not just on those questions but on other questions as well - because it reduces the time pressure (you don't need much time to answer a problem if you remember it from last time). Follow a few guidelines to minimize the chance of artificially inflating your score via question repeats. First, anytime you see a problem that you remember (and this means: I know the answer or I'm pretty sure I remember the answer, not just "hmm, this looks familiar..."), immediately look at the timer and make yourself sit there for the full length of time for that question type. This way, you don't artificially give yourself more time than you should have. Second, think about whether you got this problem right the last time. If you did, get it right again this time. If you didn't, get it wrong again. If you *completely honestly* think that you would get it right this time around if it were a new question (even though you got it wrong last time) because you've studied that area and improved, then get it right this time.
- your quant score on MGMAT was deflated by the fact that you ran out of time and had to guess on so many. You need to be REALLY careful that you don't allow yourself to get too sucked in on the official test. Yes, the official test includes experimentals, so you get some "mental breaks" - but you also know the official test actually counts, and so if you have the bad habit of hanging on a little too long sometimes, that can often get magnified under the pressure of the official test.
- Re: the folders, it just depends what question you want to ask. For the questions you're asking right now, this is the appropriate folder. If you have questions about specific problems, put those in the appropriately titled folder - eg, a verbal question from a ManhattanGMAT CAT exam should go in the MGMAT CAT Verbal folder. There's also a separate folder to ask questions about admissions.
I generally recommend against taking more than 1 test a week. If you are doing the kind of analysis you should be doing, it takes at least 6 hours to go over one test, and it can take 10-30 (or more) additional hours to go review various things that showed up as weaknesses on the test. The tests are used to assess progress, not to make progress. You mostly make your progress via the studying you do between the tests. Early on in the process, I recommend a test only about once every 3 weeks. For someone close to the official test date, as you are, I recommend once a week.
Last edited by StaceyKoprince on Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- MG
WORRIED
Excellent response. Thanks for your insights. Much appreciated. I really want to ask you what are the kind of analysis one should be doing? What makes the analysis successful? I realize this is critical part of the prep. Please share your insights on what according to you is the best approach here?
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9360
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Here are some of the questions to ask yourself when analyzing a problem (any problem - even if you got it right!):
Was I able to CATEGORIZE this question by topic and subtopic? By process / technique?
Did I make a CONNECTION to previous experience? Or did I have to do it all from scratch?
Did I COMPREHEND the symbols, text, questions, statements, and answer choices?
Did I understand the CONTENT being tested?
Did I choose the best APPROACH?
Did I have the SKILLS to follow through?
Am I comfortable with OTHER STRATEGIES that would have worked, at least partially?
Do I understand every TRAP & TRICK that the writer built into the question, including wrong answers?
Have I MASTERED this problem? Could I explain every aspect, fully, to someone else?
How will I RECOGNIZE similar problems in the future?
When you get something wrong:
1) Why did I get it wrong (as specifically as possible)?
2) What could I do to minimize the chance of making that error (or those errors) again? How will I make whatever that is a habit so that I really do minimize chances of making the same error again?
3) What are the right ways to do it? (for math, there's always more than one way to do a problem)
4) Of the right ways, which one is the best way for me (combining both efficiency and effectiveness) given my strengths and weaknesses?
5) How will I recognize problems of similar type in future so that I can apply that "best way" to the problem?
When you get ir right:
1) Did I really know what I was doing or did I get lucky? If I got lucky, review all of the "wrong answer" questions, above
2) If I did know what I was doing, did I also do it in the best way (for me)? If not, figure out the best way for you.
3) How will I recognize problems of similar type in future so that I can either repeat my original success or apply my new "best way" to the problem?
On verbal:
- specifically why each wrong answer is wrong
- which wrong answer is the most tempting and why
- how to recognize that the tempting wrong answer is still wrong anyway so you can eliminate it
- why someone might be tempted to eliminate the right answer
Was I able to CATEGORIZE this question by topic and subtopic? By process / technique?
Did I make a CONNECTION to previous experience? Or did I have to do it all from scratch?
Did I COMPREHEND the symbols, text, questions, statements, and answer choices?
Did I understand the CONTENT being tested?
Did I choose the best APPROACH?
Did I have the SKILLS to follow through?
Am I comfortable with OTHER STRATEGIES that would have worked, at least partially?
Do I understand every TRAP & TRICK that the writer built into the question, including wrong answers?
Have I MASTERED this problem? Could I explain every aspect, fully, to someone else?
How will I RECOGNIZE similar problems in the future?
When you get something wrong:
1) Why did I get it wrong (as specifically as possible)?
2) What could I do to minimize the chance of making that error (or those errors) again? How will I make whatever that is a habit so that I really do minimize chances of making the same error again?
3) What are the right ways to do it? (for math, there's always more than one way to do a problem)
4) Of the right ways, which one is the best way for me (combining both efficiency and effectiveness) given my strengths and weaknesses?
5) How will I recognize problems of similar type in future so that I can apply that "best way" to the problem?
When you get ir right:
1) Did I really know what I was doing or did I get lucky? If I got lucky, review all of the "wrong answer" questions, above
2) If I did know what I was doing, did I also do it in the best way (for me)? If not, figure out the best way for you.
3) How will I recognize problems of similar type in future so that I can either repeat my original success or apply my new "best way" to the problem?
On verbal:
- specifically why each wrong answer is wrong
- which wrong answer is the most tempting and why
- how to recognize that the tempting wrong answer is still wrong anyway so you can eliminate it
- why someone might be tempted to eliminate the right answer
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
7 posts Page 1 of 1