Work experience dilemma

[SH623]

I understand that work experience is given significant weight in the admissions decision. However, I seem to be in a bit of dilemma regarding whether to stay at my current job (which I don't mind but it is in a field I know I don't want to stay in) for the sake of increasing my work experience vs. starting the application process this summer to enroll Fall 2015 (by then I'd have been at this job for 23-24 months). In other words, if you know you want to use the MBA to switch careers, why wait?

I know some advise to switch careers before B-School, but if that backfires (i.e., unemployed for several months, can't "break in" to my field of choice, etc.) then I'm still left with a low amount of work experience.

Quick background:
25 years old, US citizen, liberal arts from midwest Big 10 (3.3 gpa) class of 2010, law school at a "middle-tier" school (ranked in the 60s by USNews, 3.4 gpa/top 30%) class of 2013, taking the GMAT in March (scored a 680 on my most recent practice test [Kaplan CAT], shooting for something in the 670-700 range), would like to go Top 30 if possible.

Work experience situation:
I'm currently working at a top tier regional law firm (not international firm though) in the middle east. However, I am not passionate about law. My favorite classes in law school were my corporate finance courses that involved very little law. I applied to some finance jobs out of law school but had no luck and came across this interesting opportunity in my home country as a trainee on the Project Finance team at a highly respected firm. I figured I'd give it a shot (maybe a little "buyer's remorse" with the JD, as in "I got the JD might as well try law"). In short, my feelings in law school have been confirmed, after 6 months I know that law isn't for me. The way I explained it to my parents was this: Us lawyers cross the t's and dot the i's on a financial transaction, but the ones actually "writing the story" are the i-bankers. I want to be involved in the number crunching, market research, analysis, etc. instead of "standing on the sidelines."

Does the JD make up for lack of work experience? Does the international background/aspect make a difference? I held a part-time job throughout undergrad, had cool summer jobs (including summer camp counselor and interning at a talent agency in NYC), good internships in law school (including interning for a federal judge), etc.

Does any of that matter or am I just better off sucking it up for another year at this firm?

[mbamissionjenK]

Hi there,

Thanks for sharing your story which is pretty interesting and I hear what you're saying in terms of sticking with it, making a change now, or applying to b-school.

So is the main crux of the question, whether to apply to b-school with 2 vs 3 years of full time work experience? And I guess also, whether to keep the current job or aim to change roles within that time?

You have done a fairly good self assessment based on what you've mentioned here, in terms of the various pluses and minuses and how it could be perceived or what questions could be raised. Generally, only 2 years of full time experience is on the lower side. But, you are right that time in law school is more valuable experience/skills/knowledge than simply undergrad and then the 2 years, so it does count for something. But still your ft experience would be just 2 years. Yes I also agree that the international experience is something important to play up-- including what you learned and gained from it; how it's affected how you'll work with others of various cultures/backgrounds in future, etc.

Overall my thought would be-- if you're really interested... why not give it a shot (applying) this time around? Worse case, try again next year? If you are up for investing the time/money/effort in applying. What you'd want to focus on is WHY NOW is the right time for you, which you can explain. And you'd also want to make sure it doesn't sound too much like you are just 'fishing for another job or degree'.... or going for the MBA just because you don't like law.... focus instead on the positives and what you DO like about the job/s you envision yourself with post-MBA, and think about how your law degree will actually enhance your ability to handle those roles too, as well as how it will help you contribute to a b-school classroom.

Hope that helps! Good luck and keep us posted!

[SH623]

Awesome stuff Jen, your post is extremely helpful - thank you very much.

[mbamissionjenK]

You are most welcome. Keep us posted!

[SH623]

Hi Jen,

I wanted to provide an update on my GMAT score and see if you had any more great advice.

I took the GMAT in March (6 AWA, 8 IR, 38 Quant, 37 Verbal, 620 overall) and was severely disappointed, especially given that my practice exams hovered in the 650-680 range. I decided to re-take in June, focusing my studies mostly on Quant and was able to bump my score up to 660 (44 Quant, 38 Verbal) with a perfect 8 IR. While I'm pleased with the improvement, it is not what I was hoping for (practice exams ranged from 660-720); but at the same time, I work a job with very long hours and weekends so I'm not really sure how feasible a 3rd take is or whether I would improve that much (i.e., I think on an optimal test day I could hit 680-690 - is a potential 20-30 points really worth it?).

I want to apply early this round, and want to attend in the mid-west. The schools I am looking at are: Iowa (native Iowan, went there for undergrad), IU-Kelley, Notre Dame, and Illinois.

My main questions are the following:

(1) Does the IR hold any weight with admissions committees? Does it make up at all for my good but not great 660 score?

(2) Are these schools realistic shots? Based on their Class Profiles, I seem to be slightly on the lower end GMAT wise (averages at each range from 661 to 687), slightly on the lower end UGPA wise (I have a 3.31, the averages at those schools range from 3.3 to 3.5), and definitely on the lower end work experience wise (as mentioned in the post above I'll be at about 14 months when applying and 23 months when matriculating). While their acceptance rates range from about 35% to 45%, I'm not an underrepresented minority or female. With applications and GMAT scores seemingly trending upwards, are these shots even worth taking?

(3) I feel like I have a unique background, with the legal aspect and overseas experience. I also feel like I have a clear set of goals for why MBA (short term: want to work in fixed income research focusing on structured products and derivatives, long term: actually structure derivatives - I get to work on derivatives at my current job, but only get to tailor them legally to fit my clients' needs, I'm much more interested in tailoring the product from scratch to fit their financial needs. I think with my understanding of the mechanisms that govern these financial contracts I have a unique insight that would help me structure such contracts in a creative manner) and with my non-financial background the MBA will greatly increase my chances of achieving those goals. Is such a background + set of goals enough to enhance my chances or is the difference likely negligible?

I apologize for the length. Any advice or suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

[mbamissionjenK]

Hi there,

Thanks for the updates. Sorry to hear the GMAT has been lower than your practice test scores, it is definitely a challenging process to go through.

Lots to think about here, and I think overall it's not a super clear cut case either way (would tell you if I thought it was in either direction), so I think it's a personal choice of whether to go for it or not, but if you think you'd regret not trying, then you probably want to give it a shot.

Regarding the GMAT, you are likely at the low but competitive score for the schools you mentioned, so hopefully your current score wouldn't be what would keep you out (more might be decided upon based on your profile/work experience/goals etc). That said, certainly a higher score would still help you at those programs too. A re-take or not is up to what you think... if you did score decently higher on the practice tests, you likely CAN perform higher on the real thing too and if you did re-take I'd say do it as soon as you can (vs a whole additional study session). The IR of 8 is notable; I don't think it will have a huge impact but getting an 8 is definitely more noticeable than more of an average score, sure.

I think yes you'd be right to play up your international experiences. You'd also ideally want to showcase any leadership experiences-- not sure how you feel about examples of leadership, motivating and/or influencing others; teamwork; going above and beyond what was expected of you, etc. All of that will make a difference. And in explaining your goals and rationale for the MBA, ideally you would relate your past and law experiences to the post-MBA career goals and work on the whole story flowing/making sense.

Ultimately it will probably come down to whether the admissions committee feels you'll have a lot to contribute to the class and have some good experiences; and how they feel you'll use the MBA, as well as how you stack up against other applicants (and your essays, recommendations and interview can really help!).

Keep us posted! Or let us know if you'd like to chat more, we offer a free 30 min consult too. And you're welcome to chime in here anytime. Good luck!

[SH623]

Thanks again, Jen.

I'd rather invest my time and money in the application process over the next 2-3 months and apply ED/R1 to the schools I listed. If the score is unlikely to be the deciding factor, I think my personal cost/benefit scale weighs in favor of creating the best app I can and getting it in early rather than focusing on the score increase.

That way I'll have my answers by the end of the year, and if I strike out I can step back, re-evaluate, likely re-attempt the GMAT in the spring and try to apply early again next year.

In terms of leadership examples, I can think of 2 recent highlights:

(1) I took a Deals course my last semester of law school. It was a completely practical course geared more toward business than law. A huge part (either 50% or 75%, I don't recall exactly) of the final grade, on a strict curve (only about 8-10/40 kids got an A or A-), was a team project that involved a presentation of the economics of a deal and a paper legally analyzing the deal. Once I saw that on the syllabus emailed to us a week before class, I looked at the email list and targeted 4 students I wanted to team up with. I contacted each of them and proposed teaming up. I then chose a deal I liked (a volatility linked structured product called the 'TVIX'), discussed it with them, and we agreed to go for it. I led the team (which included our class valedictorian, and 3 others ranked in the top 20% of our graduating class) by scheduling meetings, making various suggestions (some declined, some turned down) on how to split up the work, make the presentation etc., ensuring communication through email threads, phone calls, texts etc. In short, I think they would all agree I was the clear leader of a group of strong and smart personalities. We ended up getting the highest grade in the class on the project.

(2) Out of a random side-convo with my current boss (the Sr. Partner at my law firm), we came up with the idea to revamp our firm's server by re-organizing and updating the majority of it into a new "library." I took that idea and turned it into a power point and he loved it so much that he called an impromptu meeting with 2 other partners and 2 senior associates and asked me to present the idea and strategy to them (on the spot, no prep). It went really well, and from then on I have been in charge of standardizing and updating various legal opinions and summarizing relevant legislation for the new "library"(in my "spare time" of course, as it is not billable work!). This has also involved me forming a sub-committee of 3 partners and 1 associate/trainee and scheduling meetings with them to discuss updates, new ideas, and progress of the "library" going forward.

Also, something not on my resume but that I hold dearly is my summer spent (before my junior of college) as an overnight summer camp counselor, which involved leadership in the sense that I was in charge of a different set of twelve 11-13 year olds each week for 9 weeks. Is that worth mentioning too, or are the first 2 examples sufficient?



In terms of teamwork and going above and beyond, I'm part of the project finance team at work right now and think I have enough experience so far to articulate good stories about working with others and taking initiative on certain tasks.


Lastly, I think my "why MBA" story starts with a particular class I took my second year of law school (Corporations) that sparked a general interest in finance, then exposure to the legal side of financial transactions (ranging from multi-step acquisitions to bond issuances to derivatives) that has only strengthened and narrowed that spark. As I mentioned before I like tailoring certain aspects of a transaction to my clients' legal needs, but I'm much more interested in starting the transaction from scratch (i.e., coming up with the idea to help solve their problem/achieve a particular objective) and tailoring it to fit their financial needs/goals. I think the law background helps with my soft skills, especially critical thinking, speaking and writing (despite what you've seen on here haha), and understanding legal/language mechanisms of various financial transactions. It also shows my ability to handle (and excel in) a rigorous graduate level academic program. However, the MBA provides more of the financial training I need to bolster my lack of financial background (especially the financial/numbers mechanisms of those same transactions), a new network (i.e., classmates, alumni, profs) to learn from/become a part of, and the credentials that will help me transition from law to finance.


The above is kind of the foundation that I want to build into a great application over the summer and then polish by the early fall for ED/R1. Do you think that's a good start?

[mbamissionjenK]

Hi there,

Thanks for the additional detailed insight into your experiences and application information. ;) I think that is a reasonable way to approach things, in terms of focusing on maximizing the applications and essays at this time vs worrying too much about another GMAT test unless you do need to re-apply next year.

In terms of your leadership examples, it's good that you are starting to think through past stories and experiences you could use. When we work with admissions consulting clients, we do an in-depth brainstorming process to really uncover as many of these types of examples as we can initially, and then narrow down and choose the best examples and draw out themes across your life experiences, etc. So I would still encourage you to continue brainstorming examples.... take some time in several sessions to sit and think about stories and examples in your life of what you've accomplished; what you're proud of; what has made you who you are; how you've shown leadership and teamwork, etc.

I think example 2 you listed is a little stronger at least in terms of showing how you went 'above and beyond' what was expected... for actual leadership you might need to focus on leading that committee that came out of it and how you handle that, what you've learned about yourself from it or skills developed etc. Example 1 is decent but some could say it was an expected part of your schoolwork so less out of the ordinary so to speak. Keep working on ideas, sometimes small specific examples of how you've influenced others can develop into great stories to show who you are. ;)

And I think you've got a good starting point for 'why MBA'.... be sure to really explain how you see your short and long term post-MBA career developing.