When drafting the Declaration of Sentiments that

[kartik1979]

. When drafting the Declaration of Sentiments that was adopted at the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Conventions in 1848, included in it by the author, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, was a call for female enfranchisement.

A, When drafting the Declaration of Sentiments that was adopted at the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Conventions in 1848, included in it by the author, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, was a call for female enfranchisement.
B. Including a call for female enfranchisement, a draft of the Declaration of Sentiments was adopted at the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Conventions in 1848 that Elizabeth Cady Stanton wrote.
C. When the Declaration of Sentiments drafted by Elizabeth Cady Stanton was adopted at the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Convention in 1848, a call for female enfranchisement had been included in it .
D. A call for female enfranchisement, included in Elizabeth Cady Stanton’s draft of the Declaration of Sentiments in 1848, that was adopted by the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Convention.
E. When Elizabeth Cady Stanton drafted the Declaration of Sentiments that was adopted at the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Convention in 1848, she included in it a call for female enfranchisement.


i had searched in other posts before posting this question here, it doesnt have ans to the question which i wanted to ask

why is C wrong and E right
i could narrow it down to C and E but could not pinpoint error in C

[mikrodj]

I think C has a problem with the past perfect "had been " .... This would imply that the inclusion happened before the draft. The intended meaning is that the inclusion happened at the same time.

another problem with C is that is not clear who included the call for female enfranchisement, since the sentence is in passive voice.

[RonPurewal]

I think C has a problem with the past perfect "had been " .... This would imply that the inclusion happened before the draft. The intended meaning is that the inclusion happened at the same time.

another problem with C is that is not clear who included the call for female enfranchisement, since the sentence is in passive voice.

perfect explanation. these are exactly the correct points.

well done, and thank you.

[mikrodj]

you're welcome.

just trying to give back what I got from you in this forum.

[RB_51273]

To add a little, "C" is in passive-When the Declaration of Sentiments drafted by Elizabeth Cady............

[editor: this is not a valid reason for elimination; the passive voice is not necessarily incorrect.]

Whereas "E"is active-When Elizabeth Cady Stanton drafted the Declaration of Sentiments ...............

tks..


Ram

[RonPurewal]

To add a little, "C" is in passive-When the Declaration of Sentiments drafted by Elizabeth Cady............

Whereas "E"is active-When Elizabeth Cady Stanton drafted the Declaration of Sentiments ...............

tks..


Ram

there is nothing inherently wrong with the passive voice.

if you think you can just eliminate any and all answer choices that contain the passive voice, then you are in for a world of hurt on this exam.

[sudaif]

I'm unclear about what's wrong with using past perfect tense in answer choice C. It seems to be that the inclusion DID happen before the Declaration was adopted.
Guess my question is: isn't "adopted" what happened after, as opposed to "drafted"? Especially given how the sentence reads in passive voice...Thanks in advance for any help.

[RonPurewal]

I'm unclear about what's wrong with using past perfect tense in answer choice C. It seems to be that the inclusion DID happen before the Declaration was adopted.

that choice uses a "when" modifier, implying that the action described in the main clause was simultaneous with the action described in the modifier.
since that's the case, the tense switch is illogical.

see:
when i arrived at home, smoke was billowing from the oven.

Guess my question is: isn't "adopted" what happened after, as opposed to "drafted"? Especially given how the sentence reads in passive voice...Thanks in advance for any help.

in choice (c), neither "drafted" nor "adopted" is actually a verb, so it doesn't make sense to talk about "tense" for these words.

* "drafted" is a past participle (heading up the participial modifier "drafted by elizabeth cady stanton"), not a verb.
it has the same function as the word "born" in "most babies born last year in barcelona were...".

* the other verb is "WAS adopted" (a passive-voice verb).
when verbs are used in the passive voice, the tense is registered in the form of "to be", not in the participle that follows (which always has the same form). for instance, the future tense of this verb is "WILL BE adopted"; note that the form of "adopted" does not change.

[sudaif]

I'm unclear about what's wrong with using past perfect tense in answer choice C. It seems to be that the inclusion DID happen before the Declaration was adopted.

that choice uses a "when" modifier, implying that the action described in the main clause was simultaneous with the action described in the modifier.
since that's the case, the tense switch is illogical.

see:
when i arrived at home, smoke was billowing from the oven.

Guess my question is: isn't "adopted" what happened after, as opposed to "drafted"? Especially given how the sentence reads in passive voice...Thanks in advance for any help.

in choice (c), neither "drafted" nor "adopted" is actually a verb, so it doesn't make sense to talk about "tense" for these words.

* "drafted" is a past participle (heading up the participial modifier "drafted by elizabeth cady stanton"), not a verb.
it has the same function as the word "born" in "most babies born last year in barcelona were...".

* the other verb is "WAS adopted" (a passive-voice verb).
when verbs are used in the passive voice, the tense is registered in the form of "to be", not in the participle that follows (which always has the same form). for instance, the future tense of this verb is "WILL BE adopted"; note that the form of "adopted" does not change.

Ron: thanks. i understand that "when" implies that the things happened simultaneously and that makes the use of past perfect unnecessary. But can i generalize to the extent that when "when" is used, it is not appropriate to use past perfect tense?

[RonPurewal]

But can i generalize to the extent that when "when" is used, it is not appropriate to use past perfect tense?

i wouldn't say that for sure; it's definitely possible to construct a sentence in which this sort of simultaneous construction occurs in the past perfect. of course, that would be a more complicated sentence, since there would have to be justification elsewhere for the past perfect (i.e., some other past event or past time marker).

[susmod]

Isn't there a pronoun problem in E? Does the pronoun "it" refer to the draft or the convention?

[saptadeepc]

In option 'E'

When Elizabeth Cady Stanton drafted the Declaration of Sentiments that was adopted at the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Convention in 1848, she included in it a call for female enfranchisement.

The declaration of Sentiments is restricted by "that". Therefore does the sentence mean Elizabeth Cady Stanton drafted the Declaration of Sentiments after it was adopted at Seneca Falls ?

I thought after she drafted the DOS, it was adopted at the Seneca Falls.

I m not arguing the correctness of the OA, but asking what exactly does the sentence mean ?

please correct the flaw in my understanding of the problem.

Adding to it, please also let me know the flaw in 'B'

thanks

[RonPurewal]

In option 'E'

When Elizabeth Cady Stanton drafted the Declaration of Sentiments that was adopted at the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Convention in 1848, she included in it a call for female enfranchisement.

The declaration of Sentiments is restricted by "that". Therefore does the sentence mean Elizabeth Cady Stanton drafted the Declaration of Sentiments after it was adopted at Seneca Falls ?

I thought after she drafted the DOS, it was adopted at the Seneca Falls.

you seem to think that "that" modifiers imply something about the time order of events; this is wrong. "that" modifiers carry no implications whatsoever about time sequence.
e.g.
i am wearing a shirt that my grandfather owned when he was alive --> clearly, my grandfather owned the shirt before i did.
but
i designed the dress that my wife wore to the party --> clearly, i designed the dress before she wore it.

both are correct.

Adding to it, please also let me know the flaw in 'B'

thanks

the modifier "that Elizabeth Cady Stanton wrote" is placed after the name of the convention; this is illogical. she wrote the document, not the convention.

[saptadeepc]

In option 'E'

When Elizabeth Cady Stanton drafted the Declaration of Sentiments that was adopted at the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Convention in 1848, she included in it a call for female enfranchisement.

The declaration of Sentiments is restricted by "that". Therefore does the sentence mean Elizabeth Cady Stanton drafted the Declaration of Sentiments after it was adopted at Seneca Falls ?

I thought after she drafted the DOS, it was adopted at the Seneca Falls.

you seem to think that "that" modifiers imply something about the time order of events; this is wrong. "that" modifiers carry no implications whatsoever about time sequence.
e.g.
i am wearing a shirt that my grandfather owned when he was alive --> clearly, my grandfather owned the shirt before i did.
but
i designed the dress that my wife wore to the party --> clearly, i designed the dress before she wore it.

both are correct.

Adding to it, please also let me know the flaw in 'B'

thanks

the modifier "that Elizabeth Cady Stanton wrote" is placed after the name of the convention; this is illogical. she wrote the document, not the convention.

thanks Ron. The explanation with examples made me understand the flaw in my reasoning !

[RonPurewal]

sure