Two modifier problem

[supshalu]

Phytoestrogen, a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, which has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause, is also sometimes used to treat other disorders like sore throats and kidney problems.

A. Phytoestrogen, a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, which has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause,
B. A Cimicifuga racemosa derivative, phytoestrogen, has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause,
C. The plant Cimicifuga racemosa has a derivative, phytoestrogen, which has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause
D. The plant Cimicifuga racemosa, a derivative of which has proved useful in treating some menopausal symptoms, occasionally
E. A substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, also known as phytoestrogen, has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause,

answer is A but i took C whats wrong with C?

[jeffzolman]

C. Don’t forget to put the answer choice back in the sentence.

The plant Cimicifuga racemosa has a derivative, phytoestrogen, which has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause is also sometimes... (no comma)

Also, choice C changes the meaning of the sentence from "the plant Cimicifuga racemosa has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause" to Phytoestrogen has proved useful...." (not the same thing)

hope this helps...

[RonPurewal]

yeah.

here's a big tip:
ALWAYS CUT OUT MODIFIERS TO DETECT THE UNDERLYING STRUCTURE OF A SENTENCE.

in choice (c), the "which..." clause is a modifier. to deduce the underlying structure, get rid of it:
The plant Cimicifuga racemosa has a derivative, phytoestrogen, is also sometimes used...

not ok.

--

by contrast, if you eliminate the same modifier in (a), you get
Phytoestrogen, a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, is also sometimes used...

this is ok.

[sd]

Ron,

I have a question about the non-underlined portion of the sentence....with respect to the usage of like vs. such as

Is this correct -"treat other disorders like sore throats and kidney problems."

Shouldn't this be -"treat other disorders such as sore throats and kidney problems."

[agha79]

The way I read the question it seems that "Phytoestrogen" is the one that has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause not "Cimicifuga racemosa." Based on this logic I scraped "A" beacuase the word "which" is next to "Cimicfuga Racemosa"
I Chose "B". Can you please tell me what is wrong with my interpretation for "A" and also why "B" is wrong

thanx

[RonPurewal]

Ron,

I have a question about the non-underlined portion of the sentence....with respect to the usage of like vs. such as

Is this correct -"treat other disorders like sore throats and kidney problems."

Shouldn't this be -"treat other disorders such as sore throats and kidney problems."

hmm, yes. good point.
this is probably not a gmatprep problem, then. nice catch.

[RonPurewal]

The way I read the question it seems that "Phytoestrogen" is the one that has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause not "Cimicifuga racemosa." Based on this logic I scraped "A" beacuase the word "which" is next to "Cimicfuga Racemosa"
I Chose "B". Can you please tell me what is wrong with my interpretation for "A" and also why "B" is wrong

thanx

(a) is not grammatically incorrect, so you should hold your judgment on its meaning until after you have checked for grammatical errors.
grammar is more important than meaning!

--

(b) tries to have two main verbs, without connecting them with any sort of conjunction. if you get rid of the modifiers, the skeleton of the sentence that's left is like this:

a derivative ... has proved useful, is also used...

you can't do that. it'd be like writing "i went to the grocery store, went home."

[sam.railkar]

I was always under an impression that the GMAT avoids the pattern of Subject, modifier, modifier, verb. But, I maybe wrong as this example suggests.

[RonPurewal]

I was always under an impression that the GMAT avoids the pattern of Subject, modifier, modifier, verb. But, I maybe wrong as this example suggests.

this is an excellent way to approach new information - absorb the new facts, and re-evaluate your view.

a refreshing contrast to the many posts in which people try to question the officially correct answers.

[purduesr]

Phytoestrogen, a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, which has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause, is also sometimes used to treat other disorders like sore throats and kidney problems.

A. Phytoestrogen, a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, which has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause,
B. A Cimicifuga racemosa derivative, phytoestrogen, has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause,
C. The plant Cimicifuga racemosa has a derivative, phytoestrogen, which has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause
D. The plant Cimicifuga racemosa, a derivative of which has proved useful in treating some menopausal symptoms, occasionally
E. A substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, also known as phytoestrogen, has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause,

answer is A but i took C whats wrong with C?

Hi Ron-

I initially axed choice A because I thought it was the phytoestrogen that proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopase, not cimicifuga plant as it is phrased in choice with the use of ",which", where which refers the the noun preceding the comma.

Question is, was my reasoning correct? and how was I supposed to know which one has proved useful (phytoestrogen or cimicifuga plant?)

[zchampz]

As far as meaning is concerned....I picked A because I thought Phtoestrogen is the one which has been proved useful...

A. Phytoestrogen, a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, which has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause, is also sometimes used to treat other disorders like sore throats and kidney problems.

My reasoning is.... ,a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, --> is an appositive that describes Phytoestrogen

Phytoestrogen is a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, and
it is proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause and is also sometimes used to treat other disorders like sore throats and kidney problems.

Am I correct in my reasoning? If not, where did I go wrong.

Thanks,
Champ

[RonPurewal]

As far as meaning is concerned....I picked A because I thought Phtoestrogen is the one which has been proved useful...

A. Phytoestrogen, a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, which has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause, is also sometimes used to treat other disorders like sore throats and kidney problems.

My reasoning is.... ,a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, --> is an appositive that describes Phytoestrogen

Phytoestrogen is a substance derived from the plant Cimicifuga racemosa, and
it is proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause and is also sometimes used to treat other disorders like sore throats and kidney problems.

Am I correct in my reasoning? If not, where did I go wrong.

Thanks,
Champ

nope. the standard usage of "which" is that it modifies the IMMEDIATELY PRECEDING noun, as long as the immediately preceding noun is an adequate grammatical match for the verb that follows "which".
since "Cimicifuga racemosa" is a perfectly valid match for the following verb ("has proved useful"), it is the default antecedent of "which".

note that either interpretation would make sense in context: the substance has been useful, or the plant itself has been useful (e.g., in herbal medicine).

[shatabdo.kal]

I've some doubt in this question and hence Google it and find Stacey's explanation somewhere:

In my opinion, not GMAT-like and I wouldn't study it. If you had to pick an answer, yes, you'd pick A. But I don't think you'd see this on the real GMAT anyway.

Yes, A is technically saying that the plant has proved useful in treating some symptoms of menopause, not necessarily the specific substance derived from the plant.

It is okay, sometimes, for the ", which" to refer to a main noun that is not right before the comma, but then the stuff right before the comma has to be some necessary extension to the main noun. That can be a bit of a judgment call, but I don't think the real GMAT, in this case, would agree that the ", which" modifier is referring to the substance.

Eg:
The girl named Sue, who had red hair...
The box of nails, which was on the counter...

"named Sue" is naming the girl - that's one type of necessary extension.
"of nails" is telling us the "type" of box - that's another type of necessary extension. And how else could you include that info? The nail box? No.

The fact that the substance was derived from some plant? That's not a necessary extension. And I could easily reword the sentence in several different ways to avoid the set-up given in A while still conveying this info.

Oh - also, the non-underlined portion uses the word "like" instead of the phrase "such as" to introduce two examples. I don't need to tell you that's definitely not GMAT-like right

I still believe which is not right here

[RonPurewal]

i'm going to formally call out my suspicion that this problem is not an official GMATPREP problem, and ask that no further responses be posted on this thread until someone can verify the source of the problem.

if this problem is indeed from the GMATPREP software, would one of the posters kindly upload a screenshot of it?
if it is not, could one of the posters please cite the actual source?

if neither of these occurs in the next few weeks, we will just delete the thread.

thanks.