Though margarine was introduced as a supposedly healthful

[Anne1276]

Though margarine was introduced as a supposedly healthful alternative to butter, recent studies suggest it is as harmful or worse than butter.

a) it is as harmful or worse than butter
b) it is just as harmful or even worse than butter
c) that it is as harmful as or worse than butter
d) it is as harmful as if not worse than butter
e) that it is as harmful if not worse than butter

The explanation says that original sentence incorrectly omits "that" following the verb "suggest." How do I know when "that" must be included and when it can be omitted?

[StaceyKoprince]

Think about whether the verb (in this case "suggest") is really referring to what immediately follows (in this case "it") or whether the verb is referring to some fact or circumstance about that thing.

So, the studies aren't suggesting "it." They are suggesting the fact that "it is as harmful as or worse than butter." If that's what's happening, then you need the word "that" in there. (You don't need the whole phrase "the fact that" though.)

[Guest]

Thanks! That is a very helpful explanation.

[DCE]

Hi

Would option D be correct had it been

d) that it is as harmful as if not worse than butter

Ignoring the change in meaning introduced
Thanks for the above explanation and I understand why C is better than D

Would we require comma's around ,if not, ?

If the above option is incorrect, can you please represent the correct option using if not.

Thanks and Regards,
DCE

[StaceyKoprince]

You could write a grammatically correct sentence that way, yes, and you would place commas this way:

that it is as harmful as, if not worse than, butter

[aagar2003]

Why is the option E wrong? Isn't second "as" optional? How do I know when it is necessary?

[tim]

The second "as" is never optional when we are comparing adjectives. You cannot say "as X" by itself or "as X than Y"; you must instead say "as X as Y"..

[dxgamez]

Not sure if I can ask this qn here. I was trying to understand further about the use of adjective and adverbs. So I thought it would be best to look up examples written by GMAT testers.

Came across this one; supposedly healthful alternative. If it was healthier alternative, would it still be the adverb "supposedly"?

It is logical that margarine is an alternative to butter, and therefore an adverb would be required to modify healthful or healthier? Is that correct? I'm trying to think what cases would it be a noun phrase.

[ChrisB]

Came across this one; supposedly healthful alternative. If it was healthier alternative, would it still be the adverb "supposedly"?

Hi,

Great question. Ron had a great answer to this in this problem here (http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post4312.html) so check it out when you get a chance.

In this case we need to use the meaning of the sentence to determine what supposed/ly is modifying. In the original sentence supposedly is modifying the noun phrase "healthful alternative." The core noun is alternative and healthful is an adjective describing the alternative.

There are two things I don't like about your new sentence.

1. Healthier - healthier than what? The -ier ending suggests a comparison and in this new form healthier alternative to... doesn't setup a straightforward comparison. The alternative of "healthful alternative to..." is preferred.

2. Supposed - We still need to use supposedly because of what we're modifying. "Though margarine was introduced as a supposed healthier alternative" In the new sentence, supposed would be used if there was doubt about whether margarine is an alternative to butter. Here, I believe you are trying to emphasize that "healthier" or "healthful" is what you are contest. As such, you need to modify either of the two, which are adjectives. In that case you must use the adverbial form or supposedly.

Examine these examples to see this idea at work:

A. My friend, the supposed doctor, is here. What is supposed is that my friend is a doctor. Adjective then modifies the noun
B. My friend, the supposed foot doctor, can't mend my broken toe.
What is supposed is that my friend's medical specialty is feet. This one is tricky but the adjective is modifying the entire noun phrase.
C. My supposed friend, who is a foot doctor, can't mend my broken toe. Now we're doubting whether this foot doctor is our friend! Adjective modifies the noun friend.
D. My friend, who is a foot doctor, can't mend my supposedly broken toe. We're not sure whether the toe is broken. In this case, the adverb supposedly modifies the adjective broken.

Just remember that in general adjectives modify nouns and noun phrases while adverbs modify verbs and adjectives on the GMAT. When you're stuck between two similar choices use meaning to determine whether to use the adverb or adjective form of the same word.

-Chris

[dxgamez]

Hey Chris,

Thanks for your reply. Yes I read Ron's answer before I posted the supposed vs supposedly item here.

Your examples are great. I have a better idea now, thanks.

Just to clarify-The sentence that I wanted to write was: Though margarine was introduced as a supposed healthier alternative than butter, recent studies suggest it is as harmful as or worse than butter.

Since the studies suggested that margarine is as harmful or worse than butter, we would be in doubt that margarine is a healthier alternative, right? That was why I was thinking it should be supposed. Would it make sense?

I see the reason why supposedly modifies the noun phrase healthful alternative. Just trying to get a better grasp in the concept! :D

[dxgamez]

Chris,

One more qn. You stated that healthful alternative is a noun phrase. Can an adverb modify a noun phrase? I thought we would need an adjective to modify a noun phrase.

Refer to the qn in Ron's explanation (URL above).

supposed Mediterranean predecessors: noun phrase "Mediterranean predecessors" is modified by supposed.

supposedly Mediterranean predecessors: adjective "Mediterranean" is modified by supposedly.

[ChrisB]

Hi,

Great follow ups! I have touched up my response to be more clear about when to use an adverb or adjective in the original question. Here are my responses to your follow up questions.

Just to clarify-The sentence that I wanted to write was: Though margarine was introduced as a supposed healthier alternative than butter, recent studies suggest it is as harmful as or worse than butter.

Since the studies suggested that margarine is as harmful or worse than butter, we would be in doubt that margarine is a healthier alternative, right? That was why I was thinking it should be supposed. Would it make sense?

This is tricky because the meaning differences are subtle. Let's look at the two situations:

1. Though margarine was introduced as a supposed healthier alternative to butter
In this case, supposed is modifying the noun phrase healthier alternative. What is in doubt is whether margarine truly is a healthier alternative.

2. Though margarine was introduced as a supposedly healthier alternative to butter.
In this case, supposedly is modifying the adjective healthier. According to this version, what is in doubt is whether margarine truly is a healthier. The context of the sentence tells us that this is exactly what is disputed about margarine, so I like this version better.

One more qn. You stated that healthful alternative is a noun phrase. Can an adverb modify a noun phrase? I thought we would need an adjective to modify a noun phrase.

Great question! Adjectives in general modify noun phrases. Adverbs CAN modify noun phrases, but typically do so according to degree, defining the extent to which something is defined by the noun phrase.

Adverbs more commonly modify adjectives. Here's how these differences play out in the linked question:

supposed Mediterranean predecessors: noun phrase "Mediterranean predecessors" is modified by supposed.

Good job, you are absolutely correct! Adjectives typically modify nouns and noun phrases so this makes perfect sense. Meaning wise, what is "supposed" is whether the "Mediterranean predecessors" preceded the ruins in Brittany.

supposedly Mediterranean predecessors: adjective "Mediterranean" is modified by supposedly.

You got it! Adverbs mainly modify verbs, but this problem highlights how adverbs may also modify adjectives. Meaning wise, what is "supposed' is whether the predecessor ruins were Mediterranean.

[ivy]

Great question! Adjectives in general modify noun phrases. Adverbs CAN modify noun phrases, but typically do so according to degree, defining the extent to which something is defined by the noun phrase.

Hello Chris,

I think that adverb can precede a noun phrase, when the first word of the noun phrase is adjective. So, adverb modifies the adjective of noun phrase but not the noun phrase as a whole. But after reading your comment, I totally went confused! :P Hmm, can you give me an example in which adverb modifies noun phrase (the first word of the noun phrase is not an adjective)?

Thank you very much! :)

[tim]

Give me an example of a noun phrase and if an adverb can modify it i'll give you an example of that. The reason i'm asking this is because i'm not sure the concept of "noun phrase" is well-defined..

[ivy]

Give me an example of a noun phrase and if an adverb can modify it i'll give you an example of that. The reason i'm asking this is because i'm not sure the concept of "noun phrase" is well-defined..

In phrase 'supposedly healthful alternative', noun phrase is 'healthful alternative' and adverb is 'supposedly'. So, I think adverb 'supposedly' modifies adjective 'healthful' of noun phrase 'healthful alternative' as adverb can modify verb, adjective or adverb.

Adverbs CAN modify noun phrases, but typically do so according to degree, defining the extent to which something is defined by the noun phrase.

So here comes my question:
How can adverb modify noun or noun phrase?

Loads of thanks! :)