The pigments used in modern oil paints are different than

[condenach]

Hello,

I´m doing the online practice tests and I´m having serious trouble with the verbal part. In maths I´m ok getting between 44-49 wich is more or less what I expect in the real exam, but my scores in verbal are constant arround 33. I need to boost them until 40 or so because I would love to get arround 700 in the exam, at least above 650. I think the mayor cause is that I´m not a native English speaker, that is for sure the most important point, but another cause is that I get quite tired after almost 2 hours of exam.

Do you have a piece of advide in order to help me to improve mi verbal skills? I would appreciate it a lot.

I also have a doubt in Manhattan GMAT prep. Computer Adaptative Exam 4A. Question number 6:

The pigments used in modern oil paints are different than the ones used in older paints because they are more lightfast and vibrant.
are different than the ones used in older paints because they are
differ from those used in older paints in that the modern ones are
are different than those used in older paints because the modern ones are
are different from the ones used in older paints on account of being
differ from the ones used in older paints because they are

The question says B is correct and the explanation talks about the plural pronoun "they" explaining that it is ambiguous: "they" could refer to the older pigments or to the modern pigments.

But it is not the pigments that are modern or older, it is the paintings... isnt it?


Thank you!!!

Ignacio

[StaceyKoprince]

Re: verbal, I would need to know a lot more information about your strengths and weaknesses to advise you. We spend something like 13 hours in class going over verbal, plus we have hours of supplementary material, so with a general question like "how do I get better in verbal?" I could write for a really long time. :)

Are you taking the tests on your own or are you in a class or doing tutoring? If you have an instructor, you can talk to him or her about your more specific weaknesses and get some feedback. If you are just working on your own, you can try to diagnose your strengths and weaknesses yourself and then come back here and ask a more specific question. Alternatively, you could do an hour or two of private tutoring to get an instructor to help you with this (I typically spend 1-2 hours going over the first test with a new tutoring student and figuring out a study plan based on his / her performance - although it doesn't end there - we continue to tweak that over the course of our study together as the student takes more tests).

If you're studying on your own and just can't figure out how to tackle the verbal, you may need to ultimately take a class or do some tutoring. I hate to suggest that b/c I have an obvious conflict of interest, since I work for a company that does this work. But, if it's just not happening on your own, you may need some outside help.

Re: the test question you posted, the question itself does not mention paintings. So the designation of modern or older has to apply to either the pigments in the modern paints or the pigments in the older paints.

[Guest]

Could you please explain the difference between B and C on this one? I would have picked B but do not see a clear distinction between the two.

Thanks for your help! I love the forum and the great explanations.

[dbernst]

The distinction between answer choices B and C is idiomatic. The proper idiom is different from, not different than. Thus, answer choice C can be eliminated.

-dan

[Misha]

The OG mentions in a similar SC question that "in that" is formal and a bit awkward and thus shouldn't be used as much as possible (this is what I recollect and can't locate the problem/pp. # in the OG right now). So why would this problem be Ok based on this, is it simply that this is the best choice?

[JonathanSchneider]

I'm not sure where it says that -would love it if you could find it - but yes, it is the best form here. It may be that it was out of place on the problem where you saw it previously.

[gkumar]

In OG12, SC #59, "in that" is DISCOURAGED with the following explanation: because "in that" has largely gone out of use, it is considered stilted and overly formal.

So why is B correct ? B contains "in that", which is DISCOURAGED.

Why can it not be E? The main subject is "the pigments used in modern oil paints" so doesn't "they" refer to the subject and not the object "ones used in older paints"?

Syntax: [NOUN 1] [VERB 1] because [NOUN 1] [VERB 2].
John sleeps earlier than Joe because he works harder. He refers to the subject "John" and not the object "Joe"?

MGMAT Staff, Please clarify! Thanks.

[Ben Ku]

Although it might be archaic and discouraged to use the "in that" construction, it's not technically grammatically incorrect. I'll sent the problem up to our development people to review and see if it needs to be revised. The more glaring issue is the pronoun issue. Whenever we look at SC problems, we want to deal with concrete grammatical rules first; we'll look at the idioms later.

In answer choices (A) and (E), it is ambiguous whether "they" refers to the pigments of modern or older oil paints.

In your example:

Syntax: [NOUN 1] [VERB 1] because [NOUN 1] [VERB 2].
John sleeps earlier than Joe because he works harder. He refers to the subject "John" and not the object "Joe"?

Here, "he" can refer to either John or Joe because both are singular male nouns.

[chitrangada.maitra]

Hi Ben,

Just checking in - Is the verdict out on the use of 'in that' in option B?

Few OG problems I came across discouraged the use of "in that ".

Also, I could not understand why the use of 'because' in the prompt is incorrect. After all one of the reasons that the two paints are different is because one is more vibrant and lightfast than the other.

[tim]

Hi Chitrangada,
There is no need for a verdict. "in that" is NOT grammatically wrong, as we have explained above. So DO NOT get rid of an answer choice just because you prefer a different wording..
With respect to the "because" issue: "because" involves cause and effect - it answers the question of why something happens. When you are offering clarification (eg. in what WAY do the two things differ rather than WHY they differ), "because" is no longer appropriate..

[vijay19839]

Tim

Can you please point out when GMAT considers 'in that' RIGHT?

Does 'in that' always refers to answering the WHAT Question or providing an additional clarification?

We have a question in VR2 (Question #1, Option B)where GMAT rejects 'in that' because it feels it is very wordy. I believe 'in that' is used correctly in this option B.

VR2 #1 Choice B:- "Like ants, termites have an elaborate...."

Thanks
Vijay

Hi Chitrangada,
There is no need for a verdict. "in that" is NOT grammatically wrong, as we have explained above. So DO NOT get rid of an answer choice just because you prefer a different wording..
With respect to the "because" issue: "because" involves cause and effect - it answers the question of why something happens. When you are offering clarification (eg. in what WAY do the two things differ rather than WHY they differ), "because" is no longer appropriate..

[tim]

no, i won't, because your task on SC is NEVER to find right answers but instead to eliminate wrong answers. can you point out a case where "in that" is demonstrably wrong? keep in mind, when the GMAT says something is "awkward and wordy", that is NEVER a valid reason to eliminate the answer choice..

[hiteshwd]

Re: the test question you posted, the question itself does not mention paintings. So the designation of modern or older has to apply to either the pigments in the modern paints or the pigments in the older paints.

Hi,

I came across this question while attempting CATs. I have the below understanding:

1) Pronoun ambiguity: All options using "they" or "modern ones" are incorrect as "they" can refer to either of the 4 i.e. the two pigments or the two paints and "modern ones" should refer to modern paints (rather than pigments in modern paints). Hence, the only correct option is D
2) Because: I cannot analyse that the meaning meant by the original sentence is wrong or unintended. Only other sentences change the meaning, the original one does not hint at any meaning change necessary for the sentence formation. Hence, I conclude that intended meaning with "because" is also right

Please help me with your suggestions & clarify the points that I am not able to understand

[jnelson0612]

Re: the test question you posted, the question itself does not mention paintings. So the designation of modern or older has to apply to either the pigments in the modern paints or the pigments in the older paints.

Hi,

I came across this question while attempting CATs. I have the below understanding:

1) Pronoun ambiguity: All options using "they" or "modern ones" are incorrect as "they" can refer to either of the 4 i.e. the two pigments or the two paints and "modern ones" should refer to modern paints (rather than pigments in modern paints). Hence, the only correct option is D
2) Because: I cannot analyse that the meaning meant by the original sentence is wrong or unintended. Only other sentences change the meaning, the original one does not hint at any meaning change necessary for the sentence formation. Hence, I conclude that intended meaning with "because" is also right

Please help me with your suggestions & clarify the points that I am not able to understand

1) I agree with you that "they" is ambiguous because you don't know if you are referring to the old pigments or the modern pigments. However, "modern ones" is not ambiguous; "modern ones" clearly expresses that we are referring to modern pigments.

2) I'm not quite understanding this question, but please see this other thread about this question. This thread does address the use of "because": mgmat-cat-3-sc-t8723.html

[1877453357]

B is incorrect because "modern ones" can only refer to paintings, not pigments. The pigments used in modern paintings are not necessarily modern.

Just like how it can deem as modern to put on a retro outfit, the outfit or components of the outfit (say, a hairdo) by itself is not modern.