The organic food industry

[tim]

yes, simple past occurs before present perfect..

[thanghnvn]

Thank you Ron.
I have not understood the difference among

comma doing

by doing

and

in doing.

please, explain and give example.

[thanghnvn]

I do not understand the difference among:

- The industry organized the campaign- using the websites- that has convinced the department to change the regulation.

- The industry orgianize the campaign, using the websites, that has conviced the department to change the regulation

- The industry orgonized the campaign-by using the website- that has convinced the department to change the regulation.

pls, see dash, comma and "by"

I do not know whether the underlined part the original sentence contains dash. I guess it contains the dash.

[tim]

for your first post, you are the one who needs to provide examples, so we can address your questions with an appropriate context. if you cannot find any examples of these constructions compared against each other, then you have no evidence that this is a relevant topic to concern yourself with. you find the examples, and we'll explain them to you..

as for your more recent post, the problem as posted had the dash underlined, but the answer choices did not contain a dash, so i can understand your confusion. the original poster made an error, but as all five answer choices clearly require dashes, it is functionally irrelevant whether the opening dash was underlined..

regarding your question about the difference among the three options you present - ignoring the grammar and spelling differences that i think were unintentional, the big differences i see are dashes versus commas and the use of "by". Ron has already explained that dashes and commas in this context mean exactly the same thing. as for the "by", i'm not sure what to tell you other than the GMAT does not appear to make this an issue in any of its OG problems. if you find an example where this distinction is actually relevant, please share it so we can help you work through the problem..

[danli311]

* if you say "subject + clause + BY VERBing", then "by VERBing" must explain HOW the main clause occurred.
e.g.
i prepared for the test by reviewing takeaways on the MGMAT forums.
note that the boldface clause describes HOW i prepared for the test.

choice (c) means that using websites, etc. was how the industry organized the campaign -- in other words, they used the websites and public meetings to organize the campaign in the first place. that's an incorrect meaning.
(the campaign ITSELF used these things; the correct modifier in (a) and (b) shows that relationship.)

Dear Instructors,

I know Ron has already explained the usage of "by+verb Ing", however, I got confused while reading another question. Please kindly share your insights.

"There are several ways to build solid walls using just mud or clay, but the most extensively used method has been to form bricks out of mud or clay."

What I don't quite understand is that is USING in the sentence above modifying TO BUILD SOLID WALLS? Would it be correct if we substitute BY USING for USING after solid walls?

Thanks a lot!!!

[danli311]

* if you say "subject + clause + BY VERBing", then "by VERBing" must explain HOW the main clause occurred.
e.g.
i prepared for the test by reviewing takeaways on the MGMAT forums.
note that the boldface clause describes HOW i prepared for the test.

choice (c) means that using websites, etc. was how the industry organized the campaign -- in other words, they used the websites and public meetings to organize the campaign in the first place. that's an incorrect meaning.
(the campaign ITSELF used these things; the correct modifier in (a) and (b) shows that relationship.)

Dear Instructors,

I know Ron has already explained the usage of "by+verb Ing", however, I got confused while reading another question. Please kindly share your insights.

"There are several ways to build solid walls using just mud or clay, but the most extensively used method has been to form bricks out of mud or clay."

What I don't quite understand is that is USING in the sentence above modifying TO BUILD SOLID WALLS? Would it be correct if we substitute BY USING for USING after solid walls?

Thanks a lot!!!

Could someone kindly help?
Many thanks .....

[RonPurewal]

The best way to interpret "using", in that context, is as equivalent to "with".
You can build this stuff using mud and clay.
You can build this stuff with mud and clay.

In other words, don't think of it as "__ing" at all; think of it as something else altogether, in the same family as "with".

("Including" is another word that ends with -ing but doesn't act like other __ing's.)

[Suapplle]

the posts here, for the most part, aren't accurate, except for choice (a). a previous poster correctly stated that choice (a) has incorrect subject-verb agreement (singular subject, plural verb).

--

the problem with (c) is NOT grammatical; the grammar of (c) is just fine.
the problem with (c) is that it uses two different transitions incorrectly.

* if you say "subject + clause + BY VERBing", then "by VERBing" must explain HOW the main clause occurred.
e.g.
i prepared for the test by reviewing takeaways on the MGMAT forums.
note that the boldface clause describes HOW i prepared for the test.

choice (c) means that using websites, etc. was how the industry organized the campaign -- in other words, they used the websites and public meetings to organize the campaign in the first place. that's an incorrect meaning.
(the campaign ITSELF used these things; the correct modifier in (a) and (b) shows that relationship.)

* if you say "subject + clause + IN VERBing", then subject + clause must be an ACTUAL PART of the action of VERBing.
e.g.
i solved all the problems in OG12 in preparing for the GMAT.
--> notice that solving the problems IS ACTUALLY PART OF preparing for the test.

choice (c) fails here, too, since organizing the campaign (the main clause) is not ACTUALLY PART OF convincing the government.

hi,Ron,
"they used the websites and public meetings to organize the campaign ",why the meaning is incorrect?I think it makes sense.please shed light on,thanks a lot!

[Suapplle]

choice (e) has two problems.

the first is "in convincing", which is wrong for the same reason why it's wrong in choice (c). see above.

the other is incorrect verb tense. "which used" (simple past tense) shouldn't be in a tense occurring prior to "has organized" (present perfect). this construction mistakenly suggests that the campaign "used X, Y, and Z" before it was even organized in the first place.

hi,Ron,I am confused about the tense here.
Does in present perfect ,the action begins in the past and lasts to present?so,"used web sites,public meetings,etc." still happened prior to "has organized",can the two actions happened simultaneously in the past?

[thanghnvn]

the posts here, for the most part, aren't accurate, except for choice (a). a previous poster correctly stated that choice (a) has incorrect subject-verb agreement (singular subject, plural verb).

--

the problem with (c) is NOT grammatical; the grammar of (c) is just fine.
the problem with (c) is that it uses two different transitions incorrectly.

* if you say "subject + clause + BY VERBing", then "by VERBing" must explain HOW the main clause occurred.
e.g.
i prepared for the test by reviewing takeaways on the MGMAT forums.
note that the boldface clause describes HOW i prepared for the test.

choice (c) means that using websites, etc. was how the industry organized the campaign -- in other words, they used the websites and public meetings to organize the campaign in the first place. that's an incorrect meaning.
(the campaign ITSELF used these things; the correct modifier in (a) and (b) shows that relationship.)

* if you say "subject + clause + IN VERBing", then subject + clause must be an ACTUAL PART of the action of VERBing.
e.g.
i solved all the problems in OG12 in preparing for the GMAT.
--> notice that solving the problems IS ACTUALLY PART OF preparing for the test.

choice (c) fails here, too, since organizing the campaign (the main clause) is not ACTUALLY PART OF convincing the government.

thank you Ron very much. now we know of "by doing" and "in doing". can you tell me of

main clause+comma+doing

???

[RonPurewal]

main clause+comma+doing

???

Read this:
post46255.html#p46255

Beyond that, if you have any specific questions, please ask. I've seen you post about these modifiers VERY often in the past, so you almost certainly have the basic understanding already.

[Suapplle]

HI,Ron,I read this problem again,I am still confused about the tense here.
in present perfect ,the action begins in the past and lasts to present.
"used web sites,public meetings,etc." happened in the past too.
why "used web sites,public meetings,etc." happened prior to "has organized",can the two actions happened simultaneously in the past?
please clarify,thanks!

[RonPurewal]

HI,Ron,I read this problem again,I am still confused about the tense here.
in present perfect ,the action begins in the past and lasts to present.
"used web sites,public meetings,etc." happened in the past too.
why "used web sites,public meetings,etc." happened prior to "has organized",can the two actions happened simultaneously in the past?
please clarify,thanks!

^^ I'm a bit confused as to exactly what you're asking here. It would help if you did these 2 things:
* Say which answer choice you're asking about
* Write the sentence with the tenses you're asking about (or, if it's the same as one of the answer choices, just say which one)

Thanks.

[thanghnvn]

the posts here, for the most part, aren't accurate, except for choice (a). a previous poster correctly stated that choice (a) has incorrect subject-verb agreement (singular subject, plural verb).

--

the problem with (c) is NOT grammatical; the grammar of (c) is just fine.
the problem with (c) is that it uses two different transitions incorrectly.

* if you say "subject + clause + BY VERBing", then "by VERBing" must explain HOW the main clause occurred.
e.g.
i prepared for the test by reviewing takeaways on the MGMAT forums.
note that the boldface clause describes HOW i prepared for the test.

choice (c) means that using websites, etc. was how the industry organized the campaign -- in other words, they used the websites and public meetings to organize the campaign in the first place. that's an incorrect meaning.
(the campaign ITSELF used these things; the correct modifier in (a) and (b) shows that relationship.)

* if you say "subject + clause + IN VERBing", then subject + clause must be an ACTUAL PART of the action of VERBing.
e.g.
i solved all the problems in OG12 in preparing for the GMAT.
--> notice that solving the problems IS ACTUALLY PART OF preparing for the test.

choice (c) fails here, too, since organizing the campaign (the main clause) is not ACTUALLY PART OF convincing the government.

hi,Ron,
"they used the websites and public meetings to organize the campaign ",why the meaning is incorrect?I think it makes sense.please shed light on,thanks a lot!

Ron, thank you for your explanation of "in doing"

eveb if "in doing" shows that the main verb is part of "doing" , C is logic and correct too.

I think that , simply, "in doing" never exists in general english and, so, never exists in gmat english. there is no explanation of "in doing" in grammar books and I do not think gmat tests us meaning so deeply.

"comma+doing" can modify the main clause, showing TIME, REASON, EFFECT, CONTEXT AND DETAIL of main clause. this modification is enough to say about the main verb. we do not need "in doing" to modify the main verb. there is no "in doing", I think

we never have "in doing" showing that the main verb is part of "doing".

Please, comment on my idea. thank you.

[RonPurewal]

I think that , simply, "in doing" never exists in general english and, so, never exists in gmat english. there is no explanation of "in doing" in grammar books and I do not think gmat tests us meaning so deeply.

"In ___ing" is a perfectly acceptable construction. In fact, its use is explained in the post that you quoted.