subordinate conjunctions

[sy14427]

Hi Instructors,

Hope you are doing great! I have a small doubt.
Recently, i have been reading "subordinators" from 4th edition, SC, pg number 188. In this page number, it is written that "subordinate clauses attach to main clauses with a comma".

For example:- I need to relax, BECAUSE I have so many things to do !

After reading this, i went into more detail on conjunctions and subordinate clauses, and i found out that When you attach a subordinate clause at the end of a main clause, you will generally use no punctuation, like this:

main clause + Ø + subordinate clause.

For instance:- Tanya did poorly on her history exam Ø because her best friend Giselle insisted on gossiping during their study session the night before.

Now i am confused. I have also checked other grammar books and they also emphasize on this thing. The following is the link that i referred:-
http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/subordinateclause.htm
http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/subordi ... nction.htm

Can you please clarify this ? or Is it done only on GMAT exam ?

Thanks & Regards
Sachin

[tim]

Hi Sachin,
we are indeed doing great; sorry to hear you doubted that.. :)

As for grammar rules, be careful to avoid getting your grammar rules from any source other than one designed to prepare you for the GMAT. The GMAT uses peculiar grammar rules that other sources may not necessarily agree with. That said, you do not need a comma before a "because" clause if it occurs after the main clause - see OG problem 10 on p.689 for an example. If the "because" clause occurs first, though, you need a comma..

[sy14427]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for replying and thanks for correcting my SC. :)

Hope you are doing great! I have a small doubt.

As far as grammar is concerned, i am strictly following SC-4th edition. Sometimes for extra practice on particular topics such as countable and uncountable nouns etc. i look for other resources, but i always match them with GMAT SC.

I read the sentence that you mentioned in the previous post.
"OG problem 10 on p.689"

"Carnivorous mammals can endure what would otherwise be lethal levels of body heat because they have a heat-exchange network that keeps the brain from getting to hot."

There is no comma before because that is a subordinate conjunction.

Second, I read somewhere but don't know if it is true.
"Subordinating conjunctions introduce dependent clauses; they don't always require commas, although you'll usually see a comma when it's longer. Remember the GMAT doesn't test punctuation so don't look too closely at the commas! "

Now, i am little confused.

Thanks & Regards
Sachin

[sy14427]

Submitted the same post twice by mistake, so deleted this one..

[jnelson0612]

It seems that the duplicate post has already been deleted.

[JbhB682]

Hi - reviving this post as i had 3 questions on this

(1) main clause + Subordinate conjunction + subordinate clause.

In the structure i just wrote , Tim mentioned there is no need for a comma before the subordinate conjunction if the subordinate conjunction is after the main clause ... Hence can i say, i can eliminate an answer choice if i see a comma + subordinate conjunction that are placed after the main clause ?


(2) Can subordinate clauses stand on their own ?

Seems like it

-- Given i run for long , i drink a lot of water at night

"I run for Long" -- this can stand on its own.... isnt this an independent sentence in that case ?.... given its an independent sentence, should i not be using FANBOYS as only FANBOYS can connect independent sentences per my understanding or can subordinating conjunctions also be used to connect 2 independent sentences ?

(3) Changing the structure to this instead , Subordinate conjunction + subordinate clause + Main Clause

Can i assume there is a need for a comma between the subordinate clause and the main clause ....so
example : Because of lack of sleep, i went to bed early ....
? this case, is the the comma is a necessity ?

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

Thanks for your questions. Grammar can be a really complicated area, and we could spend years studying it. But we don't need to know everything in order to do well at GMAT!

In the structure i just wrote , Tim mentioned there is no need for a comma before the subordinate conjunction if the subordinate conjunction is after the main clause ... Hence can i say, i can eliminate an answer choice if i see a comma + subordinate conjunction that are placed after the main clause ?
Check your logic here! First, just because something isn't needed, doesn't make it wrong. And this is especially true of a small thing such as a comma. In fact, GMAT doesn't test comma usage. We can use commas as clues for various things, but I've never seen a GMAT problem where you can eliminate an answer based just on a comma.

(2) Can subordinate clauses stand on their own ?
Seems like it
-- Given i run for long , i drink a lot of water at night
"I run for Long" -- this can stand on its own.... isnt this an independent sentence in that case ?.... given its an independent sentence, should i not be using FANBOYS as only FANBOYS can connect independent sentences per my understanding or can subordinating conjunctions also be used to connect 2 independent sentences ?
Subordinate conjunctions can act in the same way as FANBOYS and connect two would-be independent clauses. On another reading, the whole subordinate clause is "given I run for long" which, of course, cannot stand on its own.

(3) Changing the structure to this instead , Subordinate conjunction + subordinate clause + Main Clause
Can i assume there is a need for a comma between the subordinate clause and the main clause ....so
example : Because of lack of sleep, i went to bed early ....
? this case, is the the comma is a necessity ?
Don't get overly worried by commas as GMAT doesn't test comma usage.

[JbhB682]

Thanks for your questions. Grammar can be a really complicated area, and we could spend years studying it. But we don't need to know everything in order to do well at GMAT!

In the structure i just wrote , Tim mentioned there is no need for a comma before the subordinate conjunction if the subordinate conjunction is after the main clause ... Hence can i say, i can eliminate an answer choice if i see a comma + subordinate conjunction that are placed after the main clause ?
Check your logic here! First, just because something isn't needed, doesn't make it wrong. And this is especially true of a small thing such as a comma. In fact, GMAT doesn't test comma usage. We can use commas as clues for various things, but I've never seen a GMAT problem where you can eliminate an answer based just on a comma.

(2) Can subordinate clauses stand on their own ?
Seems like it
-- Given i run for long , i drink a lot of water at night
"I run for Long" -- this can stand on its own.... isnt this an independent sentence in that case ?.... given its an independent sentence, should i not be using FANBOYS as only FANBOYS can connect independent sentences per my understanding or can subordinating conjunctions also be used to connect 2 independent sentences ?
Subordinate conjunctions can act in the same way as FANBOYS and connect two would-be independent clauses. On another reading, the whole subordinate clause is "given I run for long" which, of course, cannot stand on its own.

(3) Changing the structure to this instead , Subordinate conjunction + subordinate clause + Main Clause
Can i assume there is a need for a comma between the subordinate clause and the main clause ....so
example : Because of lack of sleep, i went to bed early ....
? this case, is the the comma is a necessity ?
Don't get overly worried by commas as GMAT doesn't test comma usage.

Hi Sage --

Following up on the red specifically

How do i know if the following sentence is

a) 2 independent sentences that need to be joined together using a semi colon or a comma + FANBOY
OR
b) 1 independent sentence with a subordinate clause


Sentence -- I drink a lot of water given i run a lot

[JbhB682]

Hi Sachin,
we are indeed doing great; sorry to hear you doubted that..

As for grammar rules, be careful to avoid getting your grammar rules from any source other than one designed to prepare you for the GMAT. The GMAT uses peculiar grammar rules that other sources may not necessarily agree with. That said, you do not need a comma before a "because" clause if it occurs after the main clause - see OG problem 10 on p.689 for an example. If the "because" clause occurs first, though, you need a comma..

Hi Tim - just wondering if your text in red is accurate with this GMATPrep question ...

The OA is E below and there is comma between

-- Policy makers remain concerned blah blah comma subordinate clause ....

If the red is accurate above, how come a comma exists in OA choice E ?

Please assist

--------------------

[Problem text removed]

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

I hope your study is going well - you wrote me that first question nearly a year ago.

Please don't post Official Guide problems on the forum. Since they are copyright, we can't reprint them here. Tim may have been referring to a different problem from an old edition of the Official Guide (I don't see when he wrote that post). In any case, really don't trouble yourself about comma usage in GMAT.

Remember that identifying subordinate or main clauses is a skill to master in order to solve SC problems (unless you happen to have a grammar hobby as well). Learning to identify the main types of modifier (e.g. which, comma -ing, opening modifiers, etc.) listed in the strategy guide will get you most of the way. Knowing what is a subject-verb relationship will help you here.

In your example 'I drink a lot of water given I run a lot.' it doesn't bother me if it is "really" two main clauses joined by 'given' or if it is a main clause and a subordinate clause starting 'given...'. More useful would be to find an example from one of your practice tests to apply this too.

[JbhB682]

Hi Sachin,
we are indeed doing great; sorry to hear you doubted that..

That said, you do not need a comma before a "because" clause if it occurs after the main clause - see OG problem 10 on p.689 for an example. If the "because" clause occurs first, though, you need a comma..

Hi Tim - your statement above in red, how would you reconcile this with the below statement (Manhattan SC sentence (Chapter 4 / page 66)

-- I need to relax, YET I have so many things to do

Seems like in this case, there is a comma prior to the "YET" and "yet" is certainly a subordinator

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

I would caution you not to spend your time worrying about comma use - it isn't tested on GMAT because it's too subjective and controversial. Conjunctions may or may not be used with commas (I can find examples of both in Official Guide problems). Also, although we do our best to write good strategy guides, many of our examples are not designed to be exactly like GMAT problems, but are designed to illustrate some significant point that will probably be useful to GMAT test-takers.