Should the Present Perfect Tense always be used with "After"

[sir_imran]

Should the Present Perfect Tense always be used with "After-Clauses" ?

Present Perfect Tense: Please come into my office, after Cindy has broken the door.

Present Tense: Please come into my office, after Cindy breaks the door.

MGMAT SC indicates that you must use the Present Perfect with since-phrases, and it should be used with within-phrases. I thought there was a firm rule for after-clauses as well. I remember reading about it, but I cant remember the details. I think the source was Barron's Guide from 2007.

Thanks

[mschwrtz]

I can't speak for Barron's, but either they got it exactly wrong or you misread what they had to say. One tense that DOESN'T work with "after" is the present perfect.

In fact, "after" usually signals simple past, "After graduation, we spent a week in Cancun."

It can signal simple future,"After graduation, we will spend a week in Cancun."

You can force it to work with some other tenses, including weird progressive tenses that never show up on the GMAT.

[sir_imran]

In my example, I changed the tense of the subordinate after-clause. In your example, you changed the tense of the main clause itself. My question regarded the tense of the subordinate after-clause. Does that change your answer in anyway?

Present Perfect: After Cindy has broken the door, please come into my office.
Simple Present: After Cindy breaks the door, please come into my office.

Simple Past: After graduation, we spent a week in Cancun.
Simple Future: After graduation, we will spend a week in Cancun.

[tim]

I'm going to go ahead and dismiss your question based on the fact that the GMAT NEVER gives you first- or second-person sentences. Your sentences are difficult to deal with according to usual GMAT grammar rules because the imperative nature of the sentence is something outside the scope of the GMAT. If you want to try again with a third-person declarative sentence that uses a construction of this type, we will be happy to clarify it using GMAT rules.. :)

[sir_imran]

Thanks for the reply. I found something similar in OG 12.

OG 12 says that the verb following after (or once) should be in the present-perfect tense to indicate that the trimming must occur before the tourists arrive.

"A propose has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to disocourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to vist game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals' horns have been trimmed."

Can anyone please explain?

[tim]

Not sure what there is to explain here. This example is just fine. Once X has happened, Y will happen. Cool..

[rx_11]

Thanks for the reply. I found something similar in OG 12.

OG 12 says that the verb following after (or once) should be in the present-perfect tense to indicate that the trimming must occur before the tourists arrive.

"A propose has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to disocourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to vist game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals' horns have been trimmed."

Can anyone please explain?

Hi,tim !

I have similar confusion with imran. As ManhattanGMAT(Page107 ManhattanGMAT SC 4th)cited, present perfect tense should be used for actions that started in the past but continue into the present, or remain true in the present. But the OE in this question says that the verb following after should be the present-perfect have been trimmed to reflect that the trimming must occur before the tourists arrive. I found this example is not very suitable with the principle ManhattanGMAT says because present past cannot reflect that one happened before the other. It seems that present perfect should not be used in such situation. Or, Once X has happened, Y will happen is just a idiom?

Moreover, why does it incorrect to use a simple present here? Because in such a Once X ...., Y will happen condition, X has not happened yet, X should be a hypothetical event. Thus, I think we should not use a tense to reflect that one happened before the other. Can we use a simple present like a conditional structure IF..(simple present)..THEN...(future)...

[jnelson0612]

Hi rx_11 and imran,
I think the use of "have been trimmed" rather than simple past tense "were trimmed" is to indicate that not only were the horns trimmed in the past but the animal tenders will also continue to trim the horns in the present to keep the horns short. Otherwise, after one trimming the horns could grow back to their previous size, and this growth would cause the animals to look the same as they did in the past. Thus, there would not need to be a concern about the impact of short horns on park attendance. This sentence appears to be describing a plan to trim the horns regularly to keep them short; thus, the trimming is ongoing.