SC : Despite the growing number

[RonPurewal]

the "that" acts as a wall for the modifier because "that" starts another phrase with another subject/verb.

If "that" comes before the modifier, then the modifier acts on what follows "that", which is what we want.

if "that" comes after the modifier, the "1/3 of customers prefer.." could modify the beginning part of the sentence nonsensically.

dave, i'm sorry, but i'm not really capable of following these statements in abstract form.
could you please write out an explicit example for each one?
e.g., for the last one, go ahead and write out the actual sentence in which " 'that' comes after the modifier" (your words).

[davetzulin]

the "that" acts as a wall for the modifier because "that" starts another phrase with another subject/verb.

If "that" comes before the modifier, then the modifier acts on what follows "that", which is what we want.

if "that" comes after the modifier, the "1/3 of customers prefer.." could modify the beginning part of the sentence nonsensically.

dave, i'm sorry, but i'm not really capable of following these statements in abstract form.
could you please write out an explicit example for each one?
e.g., for the last one, go ahead and write out the actual sentence in which " 'that' comes after the modifier" (your words).

Ron that's OK even i can barely understand it now. I think I'm OK on this topic.

thanks

[tim]

sounds good..

[shilpa.madduri1]

Dear instructors,

From one of the earlier posts from Ron I learnt that :

"despite" is a preposition. it must be followed by a noun.

However for this question the OA is A. Can you please help me with the rules for despite ?

Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will still use travel agents

Thanks !

[gargeeabhishek]

Hi Ron,

Why is D incorrect?


Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machine, many travelers will still use travel agents

A) growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machine, many travelers will

D) fact that the number of people purchasing plane tickets online is growing, airline execituves are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would

Is not the use of 'who' redundant in A?

D- 'Despite the fact that the number of people purchasing plane tickets online is growing,..... ' sounds clearer.

Please explain.

Thanks,
G

[jnelson0612]

Hi Ron,

Why is D incorrect?


Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machine, many travelers will still use travel agents

A) growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machine, many travelers will

D) fact that the number of people purchasing plane tickets online is growing, airline execituves are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would

Is not the use of 'who' redundant in A?

D- 'Despite the fact that the number of people purchasing plane tickets online is growing,..... ' sounds clearer.

Please explain.

Thanks,
G

Hi Gargee,
To answer your questions:

1) "who" is not redundant; in this case, "who" is signaling the beginning of a noun modifying phrase the describing the word right before "who", "people".
2) I actually disagree with your assessment of the wording on D; I am certain that the GMAT would describe that as wordy and awkward.
3) There are specific reasons listed on page 2 of this thread to knock out D; please take a look and let us know if you need further help.

[vikram4689]

the hard way to eliminate (b) is to realize that its construction - the placement of the commas and the word "that" - isn't right.
because of the placement of the commas and "that", this choice mistakenly puts "executives are convinced" in parallel with "1/3 of customers prefer...". that makes no sense.
in (a), though, since "that" precedes the comma, the parallelism is different: "1/3 of customers prefer..." is now parallel to "many travelers will...", as it logically should be.

ron,
in this question, i can understand how parallelism is affected by the placement of modifier because we need parallelism between just as ... so .... However, how would one decide between following 2 sentences, both of these from your "thursday with ron" videos in which you discussed this question
1) my friend told me, as we were graduating from college, that she was in love with principal’s son
i think this one is correct as it means that she told me about her love life at the time we were graduating
2) my friend told me that, as we were graduating from college, she was in love with principal’s son
i think this one is incorrect because it nonsensically means that as we were graduating she was in love with principal's son i.e. she was in love only for the time period of graduation ceremony - i don't think i could express clearly but my main point is that , as per meaning, time of telling and time of graduating show be contemporaneous but they are NOT in 2nd case

am i correct, if not, please correct me

[tim]

sounds just fine; nice work!

[nowwithgmat]

the hard way to eliminate (b) is to realize that its construction - the placement of the commas and the word "that" - isn't right.
because of the placement of the commas and "that", this choice mistakenly puts "executives are convinced" in parallel with "1/3 of customers prefer...". that makes no sense.
in (a), though, since "that" precedes the comma, the parallelism is different: "1/3 of customers prefer..." is now parallel to "many travelers will...", as it logically should be.

ron,
in this question, i can understand how parallelism is affected by the placement of modifier because we need parallelism between just as ... so .... However, how would one decide between following 2 sentences, both of these from your "thursday with ron" videos in which you discussed this question
1) my friend told me, as we were graduating from college, that she was in love with principal’s son
i think this one is correct as it means that she told me about her love life at the time we were graduating
2) my friend told me that, as we were graduating from college, she was in love with principal’s son
i think this one is incorrect because it nonsensically means that as we were graduating she was in love with principal's son i.e. she was in love only for the time period of graduation ceremony - i don't think i could express clearly but my main point is that , as per meaning, time of telling and time of graduating show be contemporaneous but they are NOT in 2nd case

am i correct, if not, please correct me

hello ron
could you please give more light in this modifier issue.
please give one more example about this construction.
thanx

[jlucero]

This question is a construction of Clause-THAT-Clause with a modifier in between. The word "that" serves as a conjunction to separate two clauses. You therefore need to be careful to place the modifier on the correct side of the word "that" so that it is modifying the correct clause. Here's another example:

I know THAT the answer is A.

I know, from the Manhattan forums, that the answer is A. (here I know something from the Manhattan forums)

I know THAT, from the Manhattan forums, the answer is A. (here the answer posted on the Manhattan forums is A, but maybe the correct answer is something different)

[vivekkapoor73]

Is the answer choice is run-on?
Despite growing......, Just as.....
the both clause stand alone

thanks

[tim]

OFFICIALLY CORRECT ANSWERS ARE CORRECT!
do not question officially correct answers!
far too many students on this forum make the mistake of questioning the correct answers; please note that doing so is a complete waste of your time and effort. i.e., exactly 0% of the time that you spend posting "isn't this official answer wrong?" is productive, and exactly 100% of that time is wasted.

"is this correct?" is never a productive question to ask about one of GMAC's correct answers. the answer is always yes.
"is this wrong?" / "is this X type of error?" is never a productive question to ask about one of GMAC's correct answers. the answer is always no.

instead, the questions you should be asking about correct official answers, if you don't understand them, are:
"why is this correct?"
"how does this work?"
"what understanding am i lacking that i need to understand this choice?"

this is a small, but hugely significant, change to your way of thinking.
you will suddenly find it much easier to understand the format, style, and conventions of the official problems if you retire the idea that they might be wrong.

[aditya8062]

Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machine, many travelers will still use travel agents

i have posted the correct answer here .i know i am not suppose to question OA but i have a doubt :
what kind of contrustion is this .simply put its something like this :
a modifier ,CLAUSE1 (with subject as "airline executives" and a verb "are" ) THAT commma CLAUSE2 comma completion of clause 1
can ron plz help me understand this complex construction
also how come its not a run on ?
can u plz give me examples of this kind of construction to help me understand

[RonPurewal]

Dear instructors,

From one of the earlier posts from Ron I learnt that :

"despite" is a preposition. it must be followed by a noun.

However for this question the OA is A. Can you please help me with the rules for despite ?

Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will still use travel agents

Thanks !

"number" is a noun. what did you think was problematic here?

[RonPurewal]

Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machine, many travelers will still use travel agents

i have posted the correct answer here .i know i am not suppose to question OA but i have a doubt :
what kind of contrustion is this .simply put its something like this :
a modifier ,CLAUSE1 (with subject as "airline executives" and a verb "are" ) THAT commma CLAUSE2 comma completion of clause 1
can ron plz help me understand this complex construction
also how come its not a run on ?
can u plz give me examples of this kind of construction to help me understand

hi --
i have already discussed the construction of the correct answer at length, with examples, earlier in the thread.
please read the thread -- i know it's long, but read it -- and, if anything is still unclear, please post exactly what is still unclear to you.
thanks.