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zerglingzxzxy
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Re: Ridley turtle

by zerglingzxzxy Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:30 am

RonPurewal Wrote:
However, when I tried to understand Option E, I found that another understand "saying that their compliance with laws to require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting" was also viable - the clause can mean that "the behavior of their compliance is to require turtle-excluder devices installed; the compliance is also obey the law;" i.e. both "to require turtle-excluder devices ..." and "with laws" modify the word "compliance".

Could you help explain this point? Thanks :)


"Requiring" a piece of equipment is not something that local shrimpers can logically do, in the same way that drivers can't require speed limits on highways. Such requirements must be imposed by the law.

Got it, thanks!
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Re: Ridley turtle

by RonPurewal Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:28 am

You're welcome.
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Re: Ridley turtle

by bonniewjx Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:50 am

RonPurewal Wrote:You're welcome.


hi Ron
Thanks to you, I understand the choice between" laws requiring" and" laws to require" quite well now. Yet I wonder that should not the option B be" requiring turtle-excluder devices BE on shrimp nets is protecting" ?
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Re: Ridley turtle

by RonPurewal Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:50 am

bonniewjx Wrote:
RonPurewal Wrote:You're welcome.


hi Ron
Thanks to you, I understand the choice between" laws requiring" and" laws to require" quite well now. Yet I wonder that should not the option B be" requiring turtle-excluder devices BE on shrimp nets is protecting" ?


No.
You'd have to write "require that they be there". In this type of construction, it is absolutely not ok to omit "that".
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Re: Ridley turtle

by RonPurewal Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:50 am

Also"”
Even if "that" were included, your version would change the meaning of the sentence.

E.g.,
The School for the Blind requires dogs in student dormitories.
--> According to this sentence, all of the dormitories need to have dogs. This sentence imposes no obligation upon the dogs themselves.
(You can figure this out yourself, by noting that "dogs" is the object of "require". I.e., this sentence is essentially equivalent to "The dormitories require dogs.")

Vs.
The School for the Blind requires that dogs be in student dormitories.
--> This sentence describes where dogs must be located. It's an imposition upon the dogs (and their owners).
It does NOT imply that all dormitories must have dogs.

In this sentence, "requiring that devices be..." doesn't imply that all of the shrimp boats should have the devices (as implied by context). Instead, that wording would just mean, "Hey shrimp people"”If you have one of those devices, here's where to put it."
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Re: Ridley turtle

by bonniewjx Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:11 am

RonPurewal Wrote:Also"”
Even if "that" were included, your version would change the meaning of the sentence.


In this sentence, "requiring that devices be..." doesn't imply that all of the shrimp boats should have the devices (as implied by context). Instead, that wording would just mean, "Hey shrimp people"”If you have one of those devices, here's where to put it."



Got it, thanks for your help^^
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Re: Ridley turtle

by RonPurewal Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:56 am

You're welcome.
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Re: Ridley turtle

by SambitP981 Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:26 pm

Hi Ron,

I understand the reasoning behind the correct answer.

In the correct answer we have "with laws requiring". Is this type of structure identical to "Prepostion+noun+ Verbing" that you have mentioned in the below link:

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... tml#p26678

I just wanted to know the difference between the structure that we are using here(with laws requiring) and the one about which you have said in the above link.
Why are not we following the same logic here(I am not questioning the correctness of the Gmat Prep anwser).
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Re: Ridley turtle

by RonPurewal Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:33 am

if you understand why the CORRECT example at that link is CORRECT ("I have a picture of my cousin playing hockey"), then, this one works in exactly the same way.
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Re: Ridley turtle

by RichaChampion Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:43 pm

lwlordw Wrote:Last week local shrimpers held a news conference to take some credit for the resurgence of the rare Kemp's ridley turtle, saying that their compliance with laws requiring that turtle - excluder devices be on shrimps nets protect adult sea turtles

A) requiring that turtle-excluder devices be on shrimps nets protect
B) requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting
C) that require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets protect
D) to require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets are protecting
E) to require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting

Dear Stacey/Ron:
According to MG SC Guide, when we use require we are talking about an uncertainty. Require must be followed by one of this constructions: require that xy, require of x to do y, require x to y. However none of this is used in the correct answer.
Analizing the sentence key points: Subject: Local Shrimpers Verb:held Direct object: conferece Adverbial modifier: saying Relative clause: compliance with law Noun Modifier: requiring

Many tks in advance for your magistral explanation.


I have a very generic question here -
Last week local shrimpers held a news conference to take some credit for the resurgence of the rare Kemp's ridley turtle, saying

Here saying is a Verb+Ing modifier, Right?

Here is what we know about Verb+Ing modifier -

When you use a COMMA -ING modifier after a clause**, you should actually satisfy TWO requirements:

1. the modifier should modify the action of the preceding clause, as you have stated;
2. The subject of the preceding clause should also make sense as the agent of the -ING action.

This sort of modifier should additionally satisfy TWO requirements:

1) It should apply most nearly to the subject of the preceding clause (as you've said); and, even more importantly,
2) It should have one of the following RELATIONSHIPS to that clause:
* Immediate consequence
* Simultaneous, but lower-priority, action

VERB + Ing Modifiers also take the tense of the Preceding clause
.

held and saying are not in the same tenses.

Mr. Purewal, i am not doubting the Official question, but the issue that i have highlighted here I have seen in couple of more official questions. here the part is non underlined, but there in other questions there was a split in underlined part -
Earning vs earned, but the earning was not in the same tense as that of the preceding clause.

is this not always True -
VERB + Ing Modifiers also take the tense of the Preceding clause
.

Or I have some understanding Gap.

The Other Problem that i am quoting is OG13 Q35.

Please do not discuss that question, neither I am asking diplomatically to cite that question any way. I gave the question just for your reference. You even do not need to discuss that question, but my doubt is valid and pestering me from 2 months. Thanks!
Richa,
My GMAT Journey: 470 720 740
Target Score: 760+
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Re: Ridley turtle

by RonPurewal Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:12 pm

those things are absolutely in the same timeframe. (where did they "say" these things? ...at the news conference!)

__

also, the closest action is "...to take credit for xxx", which is ALSO in the same timeframe. you can also read comma + __ing as modifying that action. (it doesn't really matter, since all of these interpretations are basically equivalent, and EVERYTHING is happening in the same timeframe.)
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[b]Isn't it run-on sentence?[/b]

by AsadA969 Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:58 pm

lwlordw Wrote:Last week local shrimpers held a news conference to take some credit for the resurgence of the rare Kemp's ridley turtle, saying that their compliance with laws requiring that turtle - excluder devices be on shrimps nets protect adult sea turtles

A) requiring that turtle-excluder devices be on shrimps nets protect
B) requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting
C) that require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets protect
D) to require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets are protecting
E) to require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting

Hi Ron,
I'm too much confused about this sentence correction. I'm also scared to ask this question, because nobody asked here what I'm going to ask regarding this question.
The correct sentence is:
Last week local shrimpers held a news conference to take some credit for the resurgence of the rare Kemp's ridley turtle, saying that their compliance with laws requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting adult sea turtles.
So, the concise sentence is:
Local shrimpers held a news conference to take some credit, their compliance is protecting adult sea turtles.
Isn't it run-on sentence?
Thanks...
The heights by great men reached and kept were not attained by sudden flight, but they, while their companions slept, were toiling upward in the night.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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Re: [b]Isn't it run-on sentence?[/b]

by RonPurewal Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:06 pm

no... it's a normal sentence, plus a "comma __ing" modifier (..., saying...)

it's weird that you're just jumping over "saying that" and ignoring those words completely. why are you just ... ignoring those words?
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Re: [b]Isn't it run-on sentence?[/b]

by AsadA969 Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:00 pm

RonPurewal Wrote:no... it's a normal sentence, plus a "comma __ing" modifier (..., saying...)

it's weird that you're just jumping over "saying that" and ignoring those words completely. why are you just ... ignoring those words?

Actually, i did not see any official problem (cause and effect problem) in which ''that'' is used after 'comma+VERBing'. So for that reason i thought ''that'' makes the new clause (full sentence) and i assumed it is run-on sentence.
Thank you Ron.
The heights by great men reached and kept were not attained by sudden flight, but they, while their companions slept, were toiling upward in the night.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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Re: [b]Isn't it run-on sentence?[/b]

by RonPurewal Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:02 pm

ok.