Retake 710 ?

[georgepaul0071987]

Hey guys ,

I just took the GMAT a couple of weeks ago and scored a 710
( Q50,V35,AWA 6) . My verbal percentile is 74% . I feel like I can really improve on this and push my score closer to 750 . What strategy would you advice me to take ? I remember Stacey writing an article earlier which explained the difference between a 760 and a 700 scorer , but that article assumed that the sub section scores of the person were more balanced , so it does'nt really apply to my case .

Any thoughts ?

Best ,
George

[georgepaul0071987]

Stacey , can you please help me out ?

[StaceyKoprince]

Please remember to read the forum guidelines before posting. Please don't "bump" your own post. We respond to all posts in order, oldest first, and the date of your post is based on the date of the last post in the thread, not the first. If you bump your own post, you will wait longer for a response. And, in this case, you waited at least three days longer than you would have if you hadn't bumped your post! :(

First thought: do you need a 750 or do you want a 750? Second question: why?

I'm not saying you shouldn't go for a 750, but there's only a small set of circumstances in which that's really important. For most people, a 710 is great - even though the verbal percentile is at 74.

Certain schools do look for an "80/80" breakdown (80th percentile or higher in both Q and V), but even those schools are usually fine if one score is almost 80 but not quant (and your 74 qualifies).

If you take it again, you'll also have to study for IR... so you want to be really sure that you want / need to take it again.

Finally, taking it again will require substantial time and effort. There are other things you could be doing with that time and effort that might make a greater difference to your b-school applications (eg, going for a promotion at work, volunteering or moving into a leadership position for someplace where you already volunteer, etc.).

Again, none of that is to say that you should do those things instead of going for the 750. I'm just saying that you should think about this holistically to figure out the best use of your time and effort.

You may want to ask the advice of an admissions consultant. Such a person would be qualified to look at your whole profile and tell you where they think you're strong vs. weak, which will help you to decide how best to spend your time.

Now, let's say you decide you do want to take it again. Most of your improvement is going to have to come from verbal, since quant is almost maxed out already. So the first thing we need to know is: what are your verbal strengths and weaknesses across question type and timing?

Use the below to analyze your most recent MGMAT CAT(s):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Then come back here and tell us the results of your analysis. (Note: do share an analysis with us, not just the raw data. Part of getting better is developing your ability to analyze your results - figure out what they mean and what you think you should do about them!)

[georgepaul0071987]

Thanks for your reply !

Firstly I'm going to be applying only next year (i.e. for the 2014 intake ) , so I have a lot of time on my hands . I've wasted quite a bit of time contemplating on whether or not to retake . I've decided that I'm definetly going to retake , I feel a lot more comfortable with 740/750 than a 710 .

I've already done a lot of preparation for IR and it does'nt seem too hard . So I'm more or less OK with that aspect of my prep .

I've done quite a bit of retrospection ( and analysis ) and this is what I've figured out :

General Overview :
1.On my test day , I struggled massively with SC . Most of my preparation for SC focused on the grammar side of things without too much emphasis on the "meaning " aspect of SC . This really hurt my score on test day . I had simply not worked with these types of questions before . Even in GMAT prep practice tests , I get about 7/8 questions wrong in SC . In SC I really struggle with these aspects - meaning based questions and pronoun reference questions .

2.On the other hand CR and RC are my strong points . In fact , I think of all the question types in the GMAT , I'm strongest in RC . RC and CR were perfectly manageable on test day . On my two GMAT prep practice tests I barely got 1/2 questions wrong in both RC and CR combined ! I think these two sections "rescued" my verbal score so to speak on test day .


Timing :

This is going to be really suprising but I take more than 2 minutes per SC ( on average ) and I still get them wrong . I make up a lot of time in RC and CR .

CR - 1.5 minutes ( on average)
RC -
Initial Reading : 3 minutes
Main Idea Questions - Less than 1 minute
Inference / Detail Questions - 1 minute

Things I've done since my Test day :

1.I have prepared quite a bit for the IR section and I'm more or less Ok with that for now.

2.Going through the MGMAT SC guide and trying to put more emphasis on the meaning based questions . I seem to be progressing fine ; I went through the GMAT prep SC questions ( the ones that I got wrong ) and my hit rate considerably improved this time .

Finally these are the summary of my scores in the MGMAT tests ( taken prior to my GMAT exam ) :
1.MGMAT 1 - 720 ( Q47,V41)
2.MGMAT 2 - 710 ( Q48,V39)
3.MGMAT 3 - 660 ( Q46,V37)
4. MGMAT 4 - 710 ( Q 49,V38)
5.MGMAT 5 - 760 ( Q49,V45)

Best
George

[StaceyKoprince]

Good, I'm glad to see your analysis. You're really digging in to figure out what's going on and that bodes well for your chances.

Several things:

Read this for SC meaning, etc, issues:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... orrection/

You do need to work on bringing the time down on SC. My guess is that you're much more likely to get things wrong when spending 2+ minutes, so those are questions where you should be cutting yourself off earlier anyway, because that's just wasted time. You don't want to be in a position of having to rush on CR or RC (and possibly make careless mistakes) because you wasted time on SC.

You may have the luxury of ultimately spending a little longer on SC because you are faster (and still accurate) on CR and RC, but not 2+ minutes. That's a loss of 40+ seconds on each questions!

Also, read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/7 ... erence.cfm

And this, particularly the "how to study" section:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -the-gmat/

Finally, try this exercise when studying for SC (in addition to what you normally do):
1) why was the wrong answer so tempting? why did it look like it might be right? (be as explicit as possible; also, now you know this is not a good reason to pick an answer)
2) why did the right answer seem wrong? what made it so tempting to cross off the right answer? why were those things actually okay; what was my error in thinking that they were wrong? (also, now you know that this is not a good reason to eliminate an answer)

Good luck - let us know how it goes!

[georgepaul0071987]

Hi Stacey ,

Thanks for your reply !

I'll try to do what you said . Do you think it makes sense for me to do a MGMAT online course to see if that can push me close to 750 ? I don't mind doing an online course but I think it'll be a waste of time because these classes will start from the bare basics and then go on to more advanced material .

Do you think private tutoring would be a better option ?

[StaceyKoprince]

I wouldn't do a regular course when you're already at a 710 - you'll be bored a lot of the time. In this case, yes, private tutoring would be a better option. It's really expensive, but if you find that there are certain areas where you're just not able to make the leap yourself, then having an expert's help can be priceless (assuming you find someone you like and trust, someone who's teaching style "speaks to you"). :)

[georgepaul0071987]

Thanks for your reply Stacey :)

I wanted to ask you one more thing . I think I'm suffering a "burnout " so to speak . I've been studying for about 3 hrs a day on weekdays and about 8 hours a day on the weekends . What I've noticed is hardly anything is entering my head these days . I've also started making too many mistake that I never used to make earlier .

Do you think it's a good idea to just take 2 weeks off ? I'm a little bit worried that if I take 2/3 weeks off , I'll forget quite a bit of what I have studied and I'll have to start from scratch again . Is this line of thinking sensible ? Or will it not be too much of an issue if I take a few weeks off ?

[RonPurewal]

Thanks for your reply Stacey :)

I wanted to ask you one more thing . I think I'm suffering a "burnout " so to speak . I've been studying for about 3 hrs a day on weekdays and about 8 hours a day on the weekends . What I've noticed is hardly anything is entering my head these days . I've also started making too many mistake that I never used to make earlier .

Do you think it's a good idea to just take 2 weeks off ? I'm a little bit worried that if I take 2/3 weeks off , I'll forget quite a bit of what I have studied and I'll have to start from scratch again . Is this line of thinking sensible ? Or will it not be too much of an issue if I take a few weeks off ?

i'm not stacey, but, since you're my potential tutoring student, i will respond to this.

"forgetting" should be a complete non-issue on this exam.

* in cr and rc, there is zero concrete knowledge required in the first place, so there's really no such thing as "forgetting". theoretically, you should be able to walk away from these sections for months or even years, come back to them, and still be exactly where you were when you left off. (if you've been trying to memorize everything, you'll actually be better at these sections after taking a huge amount of time off.)

* in sc, you might forget a bunch of minor things, but the larger themes are not things that you can forget.
for instance, parallelism is already embedded in your mind; you no doubt understood, before ever hearing the word "parallelism", that i like running and to swim is bad and i like running and swimming is good.
you aren't going to "forget" that modifiers should be placed next to the stuff they're talking about.
etc. etc.
the only things you might actually "forget" on sc are specific idioms/constructions/etc., all of which, by definition, are minor points.

* in math, the concrete content only goes up to high-school algebra and geometry, so your capacity for "forgetting" is limited to the extent to which you'll forget your junior-high and high-school math.
if you take years and years and years without doing math, then, ya, you'll probably forget some of that. but there's no risk that you'll forget that stuff in a couple of weeks, or even in a couple of months.

oh, and, if you have actually been studying for thirty hours a week, then, for the love of God, take some time completely away from this stuff.

[StaceyKoprince]

well said, Ron :)

If nothing else, if you're totally burned out, then NOT taking at least a week or two off just means that you're wasting your time, because when you're burned out, you really aren't learning at anything near peak efficiency. And the more you try to keep going, the worse it gets!

[georgepaul0071987]

Hi Stacey ,

Thanks for all your input .

I would like your advice on my study plan .

My weak points [relatively speaking] are SC and to some extent CR .

So right now each day I'm doing 10 SC and 10 CR questions from the Official guides and I'm reviewing them thoroughly. Also here and there I'm doing a bit of quant from the OG and some online resources. I take one day off each week , just so that I don't get burnt out completely .

These are my questions :
1.My quant score in my actual exam was 50 , but I haven't done too many quant problems since I took my GMAT exam about 2 months ago . Do I need to redo all the MGMAT study guides ? or should I just work out OG and GMATprep problems ?

2.Is it ok to do 10 SC and 10 CR questions each day ? Or is it too much ? I've watched a number of Thursdays with Ron video and I can already feel that my hit rate on both SC and CR has improved quite a bit . Is it necessary for me to redo ALL the SC and CR questions from the OGs ?

3.For the IR section , I just plan to do all the MGMAT Question banks and the 50 official questions that come with the guides . But I am not wasting much time on IR . Is this ok ?

Thanks!

[StaceyKoprince]

Quant: No, don't redo the strategy guides. Practice periodically to keep your skills up. Do random sets of questions that cover a cross-section of topics. When you review these, you'll realize, "Oh, I need to brush up on XYZ because I forgot something (or made a mistake I wouldn't normally make, or whatever)."

SC + CR. Let's see 10 each would take maybe 35 minutes to do, and then you'd have 20 questions to review, which would take at least 40 to 60 minutes, so we're looking at 1.5 hours, maybe 2. That's fine for one study session, but doing that every single day might impact your ability to review other things. If you really don't need to be doing much else, then this is fine - but if you need to do more RC or quant, then this could be a bit too much.

You don't need to redo every single problem - this is not about how many problems you do. It's about how much you learn from each problem that you do. When you finish analyzing a particular problem, have you learned takeaways that you can apply to different problems in future - both what to apply and how to know when to apply it? If not, then all you're doing is blowing through problems but not really learning.

I don't care how many you do. I care whether you're actually coming up with takeaways that you can use on different problems in the future. :)

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/a ... roblem.cfm

Are you doing that kind of analysis? Here are SC and CR examples of that analysis:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/GMATprep-SC.cfm
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/CR-assumption.cfm

Please do not spend much time on IR, no. Your goal is to get a "good enough" score (4+) while NOT letting your brain get all tired out. That means that you need to be prepared enough to answer some questions correctly and within a reasonable timeframe, but you also need to know when to cut something off and guess, because you just don't care about maximizing your IR score at this point.

IR is a pretty even mix of quant and verbal skills. Given what you've told me, you should concentrate on the more quant-focused IR and be quicker to guess on verbal IR.