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thanghnvn
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recording system

by thanghnvn Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:00 pm

This question is from latest gmatprep version. It is all over internet
I do searching many times but no one explain why E incorrect properly. Pls, help Why is E wrong ?. I see that inverted order can be correct. why inverted order here can not be correct?
I can say" Installed and operated so secretly in the Kennedy Oval Office was a recording system" . This is correct . But E is incorrect? Why

//recording system was so secretly installed and operated in the Kennedy Oval Office that// even Theodore C. Sorensen, the White House counsel, did not know it existed.
(A) A recording system was so secretly installed and operated in the Kennedy Oval Office that
(B) So secret was a recording system installation and operation in the Kennedy Oval Office
(C) It was so secret that a recording system was installed and operated in the Kennedy Oval Office
(D) A recording system that was so secretly installed and operated in the Kennedy Oval Office
(E) Installed and operated so secretly in the Kennedy Oval Office was a recording system that
tim
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Re: recording system

by tim Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:14 am

by switching around the word order in E, you break the "so X that Y" construction, and "that" now becomes a modifier of "recording system". as such, the subordinate clause introduced by "that" should not have a subject, which it does..
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Re: recording system

by sachin.w Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:29 am

tim Wrote:by switching around the word order in E, you break the "so X that Y" construction, and "that" now becomes a modifier of "recording system". as such, the subordinate clause introduced by "that" should not have a subject, which it does..

Hi Tim,
Even the subordinate clause introduced by "that" in the correct ans A has a subject. .
but you just said that it shouldn't have a subject.
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Re: recording system

by tim Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:44 pm

no, the "that" in A doesn't have a subject. these are different constructions..
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Re: recording system

by gauravtyagigmat Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:09 pm

tim Wrote:by switching around the word order in E, you break the "so X that Y" construction, and "that" now becomes a modifier of "recording system". as such, the subordinate clause introduced by "that" should not have a subject, which it does..


please correct me if i am wrong.Subordinate clause is a group of words which has subject and verb but subordinate clause can not stand alone
"that" when used a subordinating conjuction can make independent clause to dependent clause (subordinate clause ) ,hence we can have a subject in subordinate clause.
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Re: recording system

by tim Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:26 am

Depending on how the sentence is constructed, some subordinate clauses MUST have a subject and some MUST NOT have a subject:

"I have a car that can go from 0 to 60 in three seconds." (CORRECT)
Note that it would be wrong to include a subject, as in "I have a car that it can go from 0 to 60 in three seconds."

"My car is so fast that it can go from 0 to 60 in three seconds." (CORRECT)
Note that it would be wrong NOT to include a subject, as in "My car is so fast that can go from 0 to 60 in three seconds."
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Re: recording system

by manhhiep2509 Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:12 pm

Hello.

Please confirm whether in C and B the sentences are run-on in that two independent clause in each answer choice go together without conjunction.

Thank you.
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Re: recording system

by RonPurewal Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:15 am

They are run-on sentences.

(I don't know the terminology in your question, so I can't speak to whether that's the right reason. But, yes, they are run-on sentences -- complete sentence + comma + other complete sentence. Not allowed.)
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Re: recording system

by manojmeets Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:39 pm

Hi there,
I have a clarification in the pronoun referent "it". (which is the non-underlined portion in the original sentence)

A recording system was so secretly installed and operated in the Kennedy Oval Office that even Theodore C. Sorensen, the White House counsel, did not know it existed.

Logically, "it" can take both the subjects 'A recording system' and 'Kennedy Oval Office' as antecedents.

So what would be the logical antecedent of "it" in this case?

Appreciate any explanation.

Thanks,
Manoj
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Re: recording system

by RonPurewal Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:02 am

manojmeets Wrote:Hi there,
I have a clarification in the pronoun referent "it". (which is the non-underlined portion in the original sentence)

A recording system was so secretly installed and operated in the Kennedy Oval Office that even Theodore C. Sorensen, the White House counsel, did not know it existed.

Logically, "it" can take both the subjects 'A recording system' and 'Kennedy Oval Office' as antecedents.

So what would be the logical antecedent of "it" in this case?


One of those interpretations is reasonable; the other is absurd.

In other words, there's only one interpretation.
(:
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Re: recording system

by solitaryreaper Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:28 am

RonPurewal Wrote:They are run-on sentences.

(I don't know the terminology in your question, so I can't speak to whether that's the right reason. But, yes, they are run-on sentences -- complete sentence + comma + other complete sentence. Not allowed.)


I am re-opening this old post because I couldn't figure out that why options B and C are run-on sentences.

Per B,
So secret was a recording system installation and operation in the Kennedy Oval Office even Theodore C. Sorensen, the White House counsel, did not know it existed.

IMO the 2 commas (one before and the other after " the White House counsel") are used to introduce noun modifier the White House counsel.
I couldn't find a complete sentence + comma + other complete sentence structure because there is no other comma in this sentence.
Same is the case with option C.

Please help !
Regards,
SR
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Re: recording system

by RonPurewal Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:17 am

the answer choices B and C by themselves are complete sentences.
they're weird sentences, because we don't normally use inverted constructions ("secret was xxx") unless the inverted part is super-long, or particularly emphasized, or both.
e.g., Only with the utmost care does Dr. Smith perform surgery.

the part after the underline is also a sentence; that shouldn't be hard to see.

so, run-on.
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Re: recording system

by RonPurewal Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:19 am

also, note that "so" is used improperly in those choices. in this usage, it needs "that". (this is another reason why choices B and C are "weird sentences"--you can't use "so" by itself that way.)

the addition of "that" makes "so" idiomatic--but also, just as importantly, connects the 2 smaller sentences (so that they become a legitimate sentence, and not a run-on).
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Re: recording system

by solitaryreaper Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:57 pm

Thanks a lot Ron !!
As always your reply is helpful and informative.

Regards,
SR
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Re: recording system

by RonPurewal Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:09 am

you're welcome.