Study and Strategy questions relating to the GMAT.
JinJJa
 
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by JinJJa Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:17 pm

Tom, don't give up. I went from 620 to 710 and it took me multiple attempts and one whole damn year! Mind you, I was a 1500+ SAT scorer when the maximum SAT score was 1600 (Yes I am old).

One thing, I think I am smarter now. haha..I know this sounds silly, but practicing for GMAT has made my mental acuity much sharper than before.

I would exhaust all questions from GMAT prep and cut and paste the ones you get wrong into a PPT slide. After a while, I became familiar with 1)exactly what the GMAT was testing me and 2)how I can best resolve it and 3)the tricks they were throwing at me.

In my humble opinion, the OG are good if you want to score below 680.

I still want to improve my score to 740 and I know I have it within me.

Also, check out lumosity.com



tomcanfieldjr Wrote:Once again, I appreciate your prompt response Stacey.

Looking back, I specifically remember studying from the OG and getting virtually all of the verbal problems correct during the preparation for my first attempt. After awhile I was starting to recognize the patterns like you described. I was hesitant to return to the OG, (at least for verbal,) just because I wanted to avoid repeat questions, (this really gave me a false sense of confidence leading up to my second attempt.) I also think that because I had just completed the MGMAT course, the techniques and methods were still fresh in my mind leading up to that first attempt, whereas I never even cracked open the MGMAT strategy guides (for verbal,) on the second and third attempts. Honestly, during all three attempts I felt about the same confidence wise, but I think sub-consciously I must have been thinking about the MGMAT methods during my first attempt.

I'm not going to be applying anywhere until the round 1 deadlines in October, so until the 2010-11 applications become available it's not like I can start with that right now. I have taken an accounting course and plan on taking another quant oriented course (for my supplemental transcript.) I suppose I could take a break from the GMAT and do that course, but I really would prefer to be done with the GMAT once and for all. The last thing I would want is to be focusing all my energy on the GMAT when I'm also going to be working on applications.

Anyway, I will try and get some advice from an admissions counselor, and probably take a few weeks to decide what I'm going to. Thanks again for your thoughts.
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by StaceyKoprince Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:43 am

Tom - I agree that you don't want to be doing GMAT prep and apps at the same time. I was concerned that you might be doing apps right now. Because that's not the case, I think it's fine to go ahead with any GMAT plans now (again, as long as it wouldn't take time away from something else you could be doing that might be even better on your app).

Let me know what you hear from the admissions folks.
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by tomcanfieldjr Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:18 am

To Stacey and whoever may be reading:

I thought I would update this post since my journey has now finally come to an end...

After a 4th attempt at the end of August, and a 5th, (yes 5th,) attempt this past Saturday, I finally managed to reach my goal. 45Q (72%) 40V (89%), Total 700 (90%).

I was / still am in total shock considering that I took about a month and a half off after I scored a 620, (yes 620,) on my 4th attempt, thinking that my MBA dream was over. However, once again, my high verbal score on my very first attempt kept drawing me back. I knew I had that performance in me, it was just a matter of unleashing it.

Because of the long layoff, getting back into a groove in terms of studying / preparation felt like such a grind, and I contemplated quitting many times. Yet, I decided to soldier on, and thank god I did.

For those of you struggling with low to mid 600 scores, questioning whether you can score a 700, I'm living proof of it. My advice for those who are in the position that I once was in, is to heed the words of the late Jimmy Valvano, the former basketball coach at NC State, who famously said, "Don't give up, don't ever give up." People thought I was crazy when I told them I was taking the GMAT a 5th time. I thought I was crazy for taking it a 5th time. However, it really boiled down to me simply refusing to accept failure.

These are my official scores:

11/16/09 640 (75%) 36Q (45%) 41V (92%)
1/29/10 630 (74%) 42Q (62%) 34V (68%)
3/27/10 650 (79%) 43Q (67%) 35V (73%)
8/30/10 620 (70%) 42Q (61%) 34V (68%)
12/18/10 700 (90%) 45Q (72%) 40V (89%)

Takeaways:

I definitely had to resort to some unconventional strategies this time around mainly because I had exhasusted the 11th and 12th editions of the official guide, and the 1st and 2nd edition supplements, quant and verbal. (I probably did all editions front to back, twice.) Leading up to my 4th attempt I relied on Knewton CATs, (bad decision,) and on the 5th attempt I relied on Kaplan CATs (better decision, but still not as good as MGMAT.)

(I will not even get into my 4th attempt. Needless to say, it was a disaster. I was extremely anxious, thinking that it was my last attempt and I really struggled with timing and stamina issues. I also relied far too much on repeat questions while studying for it. Basically, I didn't learn much this go around.)

For my 5th attempt I didn't even look at the official guide. I was done with repeat questions. Again, not sure this is the recommended course of action, but in my situation, it helped. I was relying far too much on memory. I also decided to work with a tutor who provided me with some proprietary PS and DS questions, and I did about 12 quant tests from GMATClub. These tests are comprised of pretty difficult, complex, confusing, and somewhat unrealistic questions, but they really helped improve my stamina and timing. It made me realize that I would need to guess and to guess quickly and move on. The actual quant on the GMAT felt easy because I had done so many GMATClub tests. In the back of my mind, I was actually thinking that I was doing poorly, since it seemed too easy. The important thing is to really make sure you have the basics down, like to the point where you are getting 100% of the easy questions correct. If you are getting the easy ones right, and moving quickly through the exam you are going to at the very minimum hit that 70% quant mark. Now if you are trying to score higher, my approach will not work since you are going to need to answer the more difficult questions. Still it is important to get the fundamentals down. I really had gotten lazy with this and it took a tutor to point it out to me.

For verbal, my tutor suggested that I use LSAT material. Again, probably not the recommended approach, but it worked for me. The LSAT's CR and RC is similar to the that of the GMAT yet the LSAT is significantly more complex and really trained me to pay attention to what I was reading. The GMAT verbal seemed easy after having worked through multiple LSAT prep tests. For sentence correction, I actually used the SC from PowerPrep. There was a surprising amount of questions that I had not ever seen before, I would say a good 150-175 that are not in the 11th, 12th editions of the OG or the supplements. By doing new problems, I was able to improve and re-learn the rules. One helpful thing is that while there are no explanations to these SC's, (I just had a printout of all them,) it almost forced me to create my own explanations. I once thought that SC was my strength, but I quickly realized that it needed more attention.

As far as my 5th attempt, I felt much more relaxed. Knocked out the essays with ease. I felt great doing the quant section. Again, it felt easy so I was thinking that I was doing poorly, but I pressed on. It wasn't until the tail end of the section, (about the final 1/4,) where I started to run out of gas and fell slightly behind, to the point where I had to guess on the final 2-3. For some reason, I lost track of time during my break and walked into the verbal section, 2 minutes behind. I freaked out for a second but managed to get it together and stayed within a question or two of the timing benchmarks. I felt really good, but I did fall behind largely because I missed those two minutes in the beginning and had to guess on the final 3-4.

Because of the small timing issues and the fact that the quant felt too easy, I was not expecting much. Yet when I hit the score report, and saw that 700 out of the corner of my eye, wow, pure elation.

The good news is that my GMAT journey is over. The bad news is that round 2 applications are approaching quick. Out of the frying pan, and into the fire...
StaceyKoprince
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by StaceyKoprince Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:44 am

That's wonderful!! I'm very happy for you. And thanks so much for taking the time to write up your experience - I'm sure it will be helpful for others (and it was interesting for me).

Good luck with applications - let us know how it goes!
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by n.rajitr Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:13 pm

A wonderful, inspiring read - this one!

Congrats to Tom for not giving up! And kudos to Stacey for the words of encouragement - towards a person who was really down and out.
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by StaceyKoprince Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:10 pm

It is an inspiring story, isn't it?

In wonder what ended up happening with his apps...
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by tomcanfieldjr Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:26 pm

Thought I would update this thread since it's gotten a couple of responses...

I ended up applying in round 3 to Michigan, USC, Texas, and UCLA. Because I had spent so much energy and effort on the GMAT, I didn't really have enough time to research programs, work on essays, ask for recommendations, etc., in time for round 2 deadlines.

I knew round 3 would be hard, but I wanted to give it a shot. My results so far have been a mixed bag. I have not heard from Michigan or USC, and while I recieved an interview invite from Texas, I was dinged about a week after interviewing. UCLA looks to be my last hope, and if I hear from them, it should be pretty soon.

Looking back, I probably should have done some research and worked a little on essays while I was studying for the GMAT, just so I could hit those round 2 deadlines. Round 3 is proving to be the much lamented round where applications go to die. Yet at the time, I never thought I would have the necessary GMAT score for some of these schools, so planning ahead for it never really crossed my mind.

Pursuing an MBA is still a goal of mine, and I plan on applying in round 1 next year, (assuming I don't hear from UCLA.) While it sucks to have to wait a year, in some ways it's a blessing in disguise. I now have a very good idea of my weaknesses, what went right and wrong in my essays, and what I can work on to improve my candidacy. Again, who knows, it may have just been a round 3 issue where the class was just about full.

At the very least, I am very glad to be done with the GMAT portion of my MBA goal.
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by StaceyKoprince Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:29 pm

An MBA is expensive. Better to make sure it's worth the expense! (And with the caliber of school you can target now, you're in a much better position.)

Good luck for this year or for next year - however it works out. Thanks for the update!
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by prabhat Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:47 am

Stacey... I wanted to get an opinion on my present progress. Before I jump to that, below is a brief sketch of my activity w.r.t GMAT:

I gave official GMAT in April 2010 and scored 620 (48 Q and 28 V AWA 5)

I applied to some colleges and for obvious reasons (I mean look at the score!!) I could not make it to any college. I started preparing for GMAt again.. But this time, I had a better structured approach. I tracked my areas of improvement and worked on them. I used OG 12, OG verbal, Manhattan SC, Kaplan GMAT and some online resources. I took a few free practice tests. Below are the results in sequence:(without AWA

Princeton free test : 630 (48Q, 35 V) - I am not sure of the figures on Q/V scores as its been a long time
MGMAt free test : 710 (48Q, 38 V)
mba.com free download test 1: 740 (50Q, 42V)
mba.com free download test 2: 730 (48Q, 40V)

Then I purchased 5 tests from MGMAT. I took 2 of these:
MGMAT CAT 2: 680 (48Q, 35V) with AWA - this was after a short gap in prep
MGMAt CAT 3: 700 (48Q, 37V) with AWA
I took the free princeton test again (just to see if I progressed)
Princeton free test : 700 (45 Q, 40V) with AWA

Could you please give your advice on how I should progress on prep? I plan to take GMAT on 22nd July. (not fixed the date yet)

You may access my profile information for further analysis and of course share with the forum if you think it would help others.

Thanks and regards,
Vijay Shankar
StaceyKoprince
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by StaceyKoprince Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:50 am

Vijay, thanks for your question. I'm going to ask you to start your own thread in the forums - you can copy and paste the above into it. It's hard to "mix" different students in the same thread.

Next, I would be happy to help but you have to do the analysis yourself and present it to us, not the other way around. :) Use the below article to analyze your most recent MGMAT test, then come back and share your analysis here:

http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Also note any ways in which you deviated from official testing conditions (you noted whether you took the essays, but what about things like length of breaks?).

Finally, what's your goal score?
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by tomcanfieldjr Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:56 pm

Almost five years since I began studying for the GMAT, my long and arduous journey has come to an end. I can finally say that the work I put into my five GMAT attempts paid off. Today, I was admitted to the McDonough School of Business at Georgetown. (I'm also on the wait list at USC Marshall). Hopefully my posts can help others in my situation persevere. Since March Madness is upon us, I feel that the words of the late Jim Valvano (legendary NC State basketball coach) are fitting: "Don't give up, don't ever give up!"
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Re: Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

by StaceyKoprince Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:18 pm

Congratulations!! I'm really happy for you. And it's always so nice to hear from past students - let us know where you end up going!
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