Need some expert guidance

[Rishabh]

Hi Stacey,

Sorry for the long mail but i wanted to debrief you on my past, i started preparing for the exam since may 2012 took one in october , was scoring a descent 650 in gmat prep but i knew some how that i have timing issues in verbal still decided to go ahead and write the exam, ended up scoring a 520(Q44,V21) , i had already finished all the advance doc materials available online, so thought will take a break and give this test one more try, this year thought of another attempt, started again in march but this time did not touch any official material and concentrated more on other things such as powerscore cr bible, Manhattan advanced gmat quant and manhattan sc. Finished everything in 3 months , then started with OG and other advance documents form gmat prep. Mentioned below are my score from various test i attempted in the past two months.
Manhattan Cat1 : 650
Manhattan Cat2 :680
Gmat Prep 1: 680
Manhattan Cat 3: 710
Gmatprep ( bought new exam pack released online recently): 680(Q48,V33)
Manhattan Cat3: 680
Gmat prep( in the new pack) 2: 710( Q49, V36)
Varitas prep Cat1: 680
Gmat prep( in the new pack) 1, repeat : 730(Q48, V43) (there were some 7-8 repeats in both sections)
Gmat prep( in the new pack) 1, repeat:750(Q50,V44)(there were some 7-8 repeats again in both sections)
relaxed for a day before the test and gave Gmat today
Final Breakup 610(Q48,V28)

I can imagine loosing one point on quant but looking at my verbal score im completely numb and confused of what went wrong on the final day as i did follow my routine on the final day . . I have a 3.5 years workex in analytics and wanted to apply in Kelly and NYU stern cause they have a separate structured course in analytics , do you think i deserve a chance as i already over shot my round 1 deadlines or shall reconsider taking the exam, would love to get a reply from you. Thanks

[StaceyKoprince]

Long posts are good - the more info, the better. :)

First, I know you want a higher score, but I also want to congratulate you on the 90-point increase you have already achieved. Nice work!

Your quant score is about the same as your clean practice test scores (without repeats), so that's good. Your verbal score dropped.

Did you do the essay and IR sections on your practice tests? Did you take those sections just as seriously as you did on real test day? If not, your practice scores might have been artificially inflated. That affects you most on the last section (verbal) and on your weaker section (also verbal for you, so double whammy).

Do you have *any* timing issues? Before you answer that - people tell me every day that they don't have timing issues, but they do. 95+% of people have timing issues. So assume that you probably do too - the question is just how serious they are.

Go look at your last MGMAT CAT. You're looking for any:
- SCs over 2m, CRs over 2m30s, RC read-through+Q1 over 5m, RC non-read question over 2m15s

Also:
- SCs answered in fewer than 30s
- others answered in fewer than ~45 to 60s

The first group is too long - if you're spending that much time, then:
(a) you have to take time from something else, and
(b) the problem's too hard, so you're probably going to get it wrong

Great. Now you've spent extra time on something that you probably got wrong anyway! Argh!

The second group is too short if you got it wrong but thought you got it right.

If you don't know what you're doing, then getting the problem wrong fast is great. But if you thought you knew what you were doing... then you made a careless mistake due to speed and that's never good.

This, by the way, is how people think they don't have timing problems when they do. They spend too long on certain problems, but go fast on others to make up the time, so they never get really far behind or run out of time at the end... but they're still mismanaging their time throughout the section.

Are there any other reasons you can think of for your verbal to drop? Were you more tired / mentally fatigued than normal? (This is what that feels like:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... you-crazy/

Did you have any serious anxiety issues going on that interfered with your ability to concentrate?

Re: your final question about your chances at Kelly and NYU Stern - I can't answer. I know very little about admissions. I do think you should ask an admissions consultant. We've got an "ask an admissions consultant" folder here and you can also go look on the websites of admissions consultants and call or email them or ask on their own forums. If you're one of our course or tutoring students, you've also got a free 30-minute phone consultation with MBA Mission, so take advantage of that.

[Rishabh]

Hi Stacey,

First of all thanks a ton for the reply ,it came really early :-)

I did realize i had timings issues in my first attempt but this time around i did really worked on it my rc was a major issues with respect to timing so i solved more than 60-70 passages before my second attempt and improved it to a point but i still feel that i do take around 9 mins on passages and then it varies if i understood the passage in and out,a lot of people told me about passage mapping technique but then i felt it was increasing my timings per passage so i decided to summarize the passage in my own word and usually get all main idea questions.

For my sc part , i went through manhattan sc book thoroughly and towards the end ,was getting almost 12-13 correct out of 16 in the advance doc from prep and my timings were pretty decent, i was able to solve tough questions within a minute or in 45 seconds at times but then i believe that i did not review them properly once finishing played a role in my final test, i have all fundamentals in mind which is required in the test but still couldnt convert them on the D day

for my CR part, i believe this was my stronger part but then i have few weaknesses towards bold face, evaluate the argument ,complete the argument and the questions that involve statistics ,
i went through Ron's video on questions involving statistics but then there are not enough materials available online to practice these questions and i have exhausted all official questions , so kinda nervous this time, if i will make a fool of myself again if i plan to retake the test. .there is another issue i have with CR, there are times when im not able to understand the argument completely even after reading it two-three times especially the 3-4 types mentioned above , this plays a major role in when it comes to timings issues , i dont want to give on these questions but then i dont have a perfect strategy to solve these types.

with regard to timings in the final test, i took the last 5 test with IR and AW section and followed the breaks religiously, as there were repeats i was able to finish my verbal sections 5-6 minutes before the end and thought even if there are no repeats i would be able to finish the final test on time,but i feel i did had timing problem on the final day, as there was 14 minutes left when i started my 32nd question and randomly guessed the last 2, i didnt had any anxiety during my last two attempts but i dont know im sort of getting cautious when it comes to my next attempt dont want to keep giving this exam throughout my life , i hope you understand whats going in my mind,

i have tried my best to give you the insight of what i could recollect after thinking for the past 3 days of what went wrong on the final day, i know its a way long message again but then would request you to please spend time on it and give me your suggestions,

Having said everything hope to hear from you soon :-)

[Rishabh]

1 more thing stacey forgot to add in my previous reply, im thinking of giving it a try again in 2 months time and targeting somewhere 700+- 10,as for indians top b schools dont look for anything less than this range, do you think this is achievable or i should increase the window?

[StaceyKoprince]

i dont want to give on these questions but then i dont have a perfect strategy to solve these types

This is the heart of your problem. You are still trying to get everything right / be "perfect." That is not how this test works!! As long as you continue to try to do this, you will mess up the timing and you won't get the score you want.

Read this (right now, before you keep reading the rest of my post):
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... lly-tests/

What did you learn from that? How is your current "I must get everything right!" mindset messing you up? Tell me in your own words in your reply.

If you don't change this mindset, you will continue to struggle.

You have 10 questions to go and 14 minutes left, so you were racing through all of those questions. That's your big score drop right there. This test is a "where you end is what you get" test - so your final score is NOT some average of your performance across the entire test. Rather, wherever you're at when the timer runs out, that's your score. If your score drops at the end, then... that's it.

Next, your goal is not to do so many questions so many times that you memorize the questions. You'll never see those questions on the test. Your goal is to learn how to think.

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -the-gmat/

For time management, read these two and start doing what they say:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -to-do-it/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... nt-part-1/

Re: your question of how much time you need, there's no way to tell for sure, but you're looking for a 200-point improvement in 2 months. Most people would not be able to achieve that kind of improvement in that length of time. More important, you are far enough from that goal right now that it's very difficult to pick a length of time at all. You would be better off just telling yourself that it will take however long it takes, and you'll start thinking about a re-take when your practice test scores start getting into the range that you want.

Next, no more practice tests for a while. Don't even study from the questions. You mentioned seeing repeated questions, which means you're taking these too frequently already. You need to forget about all of that (and forget the questions themselves so that maybe you can take the tests again in future).

GMAC just released two new practice tests (for a $40) fee, taken through the GMATPrep software. DO NOT take these now!! But know that they're there for you later, when you are ready to take another test.

Finally, if you would like more specific advice on any particular question types or topic areas, you can use the below to analyze your most recent MGMAT CAT(s):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Figure out what you think you should do based on that analysis. Then come back here and tell us; we'll tell you whether we agree and advise you further. (Note: do share an analysis with us, not just the raw data. Part of getting better is developing your ability to analyze your results - figure out what they mean and what you think you should do about them!)

Oh, and one more thing. I may be wrong, but reading between the lines in your original post, it sounds like you may have been concentrating on the harder / hardest questions. Stop doing that. Missing a 700+ question is NOT what's preventing you from reaching the 700-level. Missing lower level questions is hurting you. This is another extension of that "must get everything right" (bad) mindset - you also think you have to get all of the hard ones right. That will lead to missing easier ones, though, and your overall score will be pulled down.