Maya and Aztec

[thanghnvn]

Ron, Manhantan experts, pls, confirm my following thinking

COMMA+PHRASE appears frequently on SC. Only COMMA+DOING modify the preceding clause. Other COMMA+PHRASE modify the immediately preceding noun, namely

- COMMA+DO-ED, and other COMMA+PHRASE modify the immediately preceding noun
- COMMA+DOING modifies the preceding clause and refer to the subject of the clause. (of course, it modify preceding noun if there is only noun before the COMMA+DOING.)

Is my thinking correct?

[RonPurewal]

Ron, Manhantan experts, pls, confirm my following thinking

COMMA+PHRASE appears frequently on SC. Only COMMA+DOING modify the preceding clause. Other COMMA+PHRASE modify the immediately preceding noun, namely

- COMMA+DO-ED, and other COMMA+PHRASE modify the immediately preceding noun
- COMMA+DOING modifies the preceding clause and refer to the subject of the clause. (of course, it modify preceding noun if there is only noun before the COMMA+DOING.)

Is my thinking correct?

these things are true in many cases, but not in all cases.

there are some kinds of modifiers that can modify either the preceding noun or the preceding clause, depending on context. for instance, "appositive" modifiers can modify either of these things:
* the plover cleans bits of food out of the mouth of the alligator, a reptile that could eat the bird at any time.
* the plover cleans bits of food out of the mouth of the alligator, a relationship that benefits both animals.
both correct.
in the first one, "a reptile" modifies a noun ("alligator"). in the second, "a relationship" modifies the entire idea of the preceding clause (the idea that the bird cleans out the alligator's mouth, thereby performing dental maintenance on the alligator but also getting food for itself in the process).

[nileshdalvimumbai]

Hi Ron,

I am not able to decide whether the following portion in choices D and E of the sentence is grammatically incorrect or is it that my ear is betraying me?

"The Aztec people also developed a written language not as highly sophisticated as that of the Maya ..."

Shouldn't it be "The Aztec people also developed a written language that was not as highly sophisticated as that of the Maya".

Usage of "however" is the clear eliminator but I wanted to know whether there is a grammatical fundamental in this portion too with the help of which the choices could be eliminated.

Thanks.

[RonPurewal]

"The Aztec people also developed a written language not as highly sophisticated as that of the Maya ..."

Shouldn't it be "The Aztec people also developed a written language that was not as highly sophisticated as that of the Maya".

both of those are fine. the second is more readable, maybe.

same thing with these:
Devices that are not supported by...
Devices not supported by...
both fine.

[alicezyk]

Hi Ron. I have a question. In the question of Prep
There is a widespread belief in the United States and Western Europe that young people have a smaller commitment to work and a career than their parents and grandparents and that the source of the change lies in the collapse of the "work ethic."

You said answer C) a smaller commitment to work and a career than that of their parents and grandparents
is incorret because "that of their parents" is a possessive, and there's no corresponding possessive on the left.

i.e., if the right side is "THOSE OF their parents", then the left side must be "THE CAREERS OF young people" or "young people'S CAREERS".
you need a possessive to be parallel to a possessive.

But here in this question, OA A also used that of the Maya while in the sentence there is no structure like XX of Maya or Maya's.

So how does it work?

Thanks!!!
Alice

[jlucero]

Alice,

1) Be sure to reference another problem with a link for easier access for instructors (and other students) to find the questions:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9108&view=previous

2) The answer choice you highlighted was misquoted according to the other posts I was able to find (does not include that of):

(C) a smaller commitment to work and a career than their parents and grandparents

3) These are two pretty different discussions. The split in that question revolved around including or not including the verb "had" to indicate the proper possession of something. The answer included the word to make a clear comparison. In this question, we are trying to decide between:

as sophisticated as the Maya (people)
as sophisticated as the Maya's (written language)
as sophisticated as that (written language) of the Maya

The key difference in the two problems is that in the other question you are comparing two clauses: (the commitment that certain people HAD) and in this one you are comparing two nouns: (the written languages of two different groups of people)

[amit1234]

Hi Ron,

in the correct choice there is 'comma +and' structure at the end.
do this suggest a start of clause?
I mean 'comma + and' suggests a clause. But here ' and have a smoother ride' is not a clause.

1)why the usage of "and comma" in the sentence you created
(i read the book and, i also watched the movie.)is wrong whereas the usage is right in the following GMAT PREP question:

Minivans carry as many as seven passengers and, compared with most sport utility vehicles, cost less,
get better gas mileage, allow passengers to get in and out more easily, and have a smoother ride.

in that sentence, the comma following "and" is not part of the skeleton of the sentence; it belongs to the green modifier.
if you remove the green modifier, then both of the commas are gone, and you have a structure that does not have a comma after "and" (as required).

this is the ONLY time when you'll ever see a comma directly after "and" -- when the comma marks the beginning of a modifier.

[divineacclivity]

Ron, what is wrong with E. Is it meaning. I do realize that A is the best.

However is a conjunction joining 'Aztec people also developed a written language' and 'it was more pictographic in nature' with 'not as highly sophisticated as the Maya's' as modifier to second clause. So nothing grammatically wrong with this choice. Please let me know if I am wrong.

no, the use of "however" in (e) is wrong. in fact, it's wrong in 2 ways.

first, the punctuation used in that choice is universally wrong. you can NEVER put a comma only after a conjunction.
let's try this in another sentence:
i read the book and, i also watched the movie.
this should look ridiculous. if it doesn't look absolutely awful, IMMEDIATELY, you may want to consider heading to a public library and checking out an american junior-high- or early high-school-level grammar book, and looking over the parts on punctuation.

second, the words "however" and "therefore" are not used in american english as they're used in british english.
in british english, these words are used as coordinating conjunctions, in the same way as are and, or, yet, and the like. in american english, on the other hand, you CANNOT use them as coordinating conjunctions; you have to use them in the same way as words/constructions such as nevertheless, despite all of these things, etc.

for instance:
i left home twenty minutes early, however i was still late. --> i think this is correct british usage, but it is WRONG WRONG WRONG in american english.
i left home twenty minutes early; however, i was still late. --> correct american usage. note the semicolon (which could also be a period, if these were longer sentences) and the comma, BOTH of which are essential.

Cool, thanks!

[RonPurewal]

you're welcome.

[lemonperb]

there's also a bigger problem with (c).

if you have a construction such as
X did Y and did Z (note the lack of a subject in front of "did Z")
then X is automatically assumed to be the subject of BOTH "did Y" and "did Z".

for instance:
the cat ate the mouse and jumped up onto the table.
this means:
* the cat ate the mouse
* the cat jumped up onto the table

in choice (c), there is no new subject in front of "was", so that choice illogically suggests that the aztec people themselves were "not as highly sophisticated as that of the maya".
that doesn't make any sense.

Hi GMAT instructors,
Ron referred the structure of this sentence as "X did Y and did Z". But I think "the Maya were developing a hieroglyphic system of writing, the Aztec people also developed a written language," does not fit the above structure. Shouldn't the structure be like"X did..., Y did..."?
The closet subject before "was" is "a written language". Therefore that should make sense.
Where am I wrong?

[RonPurewal]

If you take out the modifier enclosed in commas, then choice C says...
the Aztec people also developed a written language, but was not as highly sophisticated as that of the Maya

We've got two big problems here.

1/
The second verb creates a nonsense comparison (between the Aztec people and the Mayan language).

2/
"The Aztec people" (plural) doesn't agree with "was" (singular).

[lemonperb]

If you take out the modifier enclosed in commas, then choice C says...
the Aztec people also developed a written language, but was not as highly sophisticated as that of the Maya

We've got two big problems here.

1/
The second verb creates a nonsense comparison (between the Aztec people and the Mayan language).

2/
"The Aztec people" (plural) doesn't agree with "was" (singular).

Hi Ron，
I see your point. Thank you so much for your explanation!

So, if I add "it" between but and was, the sentence will be "the Aztec people also developed a written language, but it was not as highly sophisticated as that of the Maya".

Here " it " should refer to "a written language". Then the whole sentence makes sense.

Am I wrong?

[RonPurewal]

That's the exact structure of the correct answer, so of course you are not wrong.

[YumikoSakurai]

-----------------------QUOTE---------------------------
for instance:
i left home twenty minutes early, however i was still late. --> i think this is correct british usage, but it is WRONG WRONG WRONG in american english.
i left home twenty minutes early; however, i was still late. --> correct american usage. note the semicolon (which could also be a period, if these were longer sentences) and the comma, BOTH of which are essential.
-----------------------QUOTE---------------------------
I still wondering the different meaning of these two sentences, because they only have punctuation differences for me.

Thank you.
Yumiko.

[RonPurewal]

-----------------------QUOTE---------------------------
for instance:
i left home twenty minutes early, however i was still late. --> i think this is correct british usage, but it is WRONG WRONG WRONG in american english.
i left home twenty minutes early; however, i was still late. --> correct american usage. note the semicolon (which could also be a period, if these were longer sentences) and the comma, BOTH of which are essential.
-----------------------QUOTE---------------------------
I still wondering the different meaning of these two sentences, because they only have punctuation differences for me.

Thank you.
Yumiko.

"However" (= "on the other hand") is an adverb. If "however" is removed, the result should still be a complete sentence (in terms of structure/grammar; it may well be awkward or weird without the transition).

If you remove "however" from the first example, you get "I left home 20 minutes early, I was still late." That's not a sentence (it's a run-on), so neither is the first example.

If you remove "however" from the second example, you get "I left home 20 minutes early; I was still late." Perfectly grammatical, so the second example is fine.