* leaching, the recovery of copper

[mcmebk]

hi,Ron,having read all the posts in this thread,i still have 2 questions.

1.in option D--->was a well-established method of extracting mineral that was
i know that in this option the word "that" refers to the phrase "method of extracting mineral" as a whole, but i still do not know why it is wrong??

2.i have read the link given to us about the essential and nonessential modifiers, but i am still not clear why the phrase"well established" is wrong in option E.

please clarify and thank you so much.

Hi, zhongshanlh,

Ron has explained that for question 1: a method can not be as early as ...., it can only be method established as early as...;

for question 2: non-essential modifier is not restrictive modifier, it provides extra information that does not affect the nature/character of the noun; essential modifier is restrictive instead, changes the nature of the noun with/without it, here, with the comma, it can mean any well established mineral extraction method and it is not so clear.

[tim]

thanks. let us know if there are any other questions on this one..

[thanghnvn]

en, ron,

what does "en" mean?

but, why in D, as early as the 18 centuary should not modify method?

you can't say that a NOUN was "as early as the 18th century", unless that noun is literally a time period. (e.g., the end of Era X may have been as early as the 18th century.)

I guess, only guess, may be compared with C ,correct one, D method that was as early as... is not more logic than B as early as 18 C (--> modify the clause before but)
need your help. thanks

i'm sorry, but i don't understand what you've written here.

Thank you Ron
grammarians call some entity adverb/adverbial or adjective/adjectival to show its uses. HOw do we call "as early as 18 centuries..." ? the use of this phrase is similar to the use of adjective or adverb ? When is it used as adverb or adjective?

pls, explain.

[jlucero]

Adjectives = modifiers of nouns
Adverbs = modifiers of verbs, adjectives, or other adverbs

In the example sentence:

X was a well-established method of extracting mineral (that was as early as the eighteenth century)

everything after mineral is modifying the word mineral. Since mineral is a noun, this must be an adjective modifier. Also, relative pronouns (such as that, which, when, etc.) begin clauses that are almost always noun modifiers.

[ivanushk]

Hi Ron,

Thanks a lot for your help on this question. It is indeed a GMAT PREP 2 question, just got it recently. I got the question correct but did not expect it to have that many intricacies, and as this post shows, perhaps I got it right for a wrong reason (it was purely "a more concise option").

1) What is being tested here? Or how would you categorize this question.
2) Does not "NOUN was a NOUN as early as 18th century" sounds off as well? Would you ever write this way? Would not it be more proper to say something like "Leaching, as a method of extraction, began as early as 18th century? The correct version sounds awfully off to me...Perhaps you can come with similar examples so that I could cement my understanding here.
3) Please comment on B, I can't quite explain why it is wrong. Is it wrong because it changes the meaning and makes the sentence incomplete (skipping the verb)...Can you even say "X well established as early as"?...probably not. Anyways, please clarify and or confirm.

On completely different subject, I cannot quite understand what makes SC question a more or less difficult question...is there a good thread to read?

Thanks in advance.

[tim]

1) Good question. This problem is largely about verbs - an incorrect tense in E and a failure to have one subject and one verb in some of the other wrong answers.

2) Any time you are tempted to eliminate an answer choice because it sounds "off" (or "wordy", "awkward", or "not concise"), this is not a legitimate reason. You should only eliminate choices that have clear and well-defined grammar errors.

3) B does not contain a verb in the first clause.

As for what makes a question easy or difficult, that is very subjective and depends on what grammar rules you are familiar with. At any rate, I have never seen any valid justification for why it is ever helpful to know the estimated difficulty level of any question. How will knowing the level of a question help you improve your performance on the GMAT?

[divineacclivity]

Hi Ron,

At first I understood the sentence differently & chose option B. Here's what I thought the sentence was conveying:
"Leaching, originally a process to recover copper..., later in 18th century established as a method for mineral (all/different minerals) extraction ..." and keeping this in mind, I found option B the best of all:
(B) as a method of the extraction of minerals well established

I know only one option is right & the right one is absolutely right. Would you please help me understand why my thought/understanding does NOT make sense.

[tim]

B is not a complete sentence. I'm not sure you've conveyed an interpretation that makes it a complete sentence, so it's still wrong. :)

[HanzZ]

however, in the example above, either of these two interpretations leads to an absurd sentence -- neither the method (= NOUN1) nor the mineral (= NOUN2) "was as early as the 18th century" -- so this option is flat-out incorrect.

---
Hello Ron,

I am just wondering what does 'as early as the eighteenth century' in the correct answer modify then?

Thanks!

[jlucero]

however, in the example above, either of these two interpretations leads to an absurd sentence -- neither the method (= NOUN1) nor the mineral (= NOUN2) "was as early as the 18th century" -- so this option is flat-out incorrect.

---
Hello Ron,

I am just wondering what does 'as early as the eighteenth century' in the correct answer modify then?

Thanks!

Modifies: was a well-established method
Type: adverb
Answers the question: WHEN was leaching a well-established method.

As early as the eighteenth century, leaching was a well-established method.

[sahilymca]

Excellent explanation by Ron.
Very useful thread.

[RonPurewal]

Thanks.

[Haibara]

but, why in D, as early as the 18 centuary should not modify method?

you can't say that a NOUN was "as early as the 18th century", unless that noun is literally a time period. (e.g., the end of Era X may have been as early as the 18th century.)

Ron, from your words in the quote, I know the sentence "a well-established method of extracting mineral is as early as the 18th century" is definitely incorrect.

A method of extracting mineral is well established as early as the 18th century.
But is above sentence grammatically correct? Do we need an "in" between "established" and "as" in the above sentence? I feel it ugly to have "in" in between, but still think the sentence lacks a preposition for "the 18th century."

Also, since "as early as the 18th century" can not modify "a well established method", so "as early as the 18th century" in choice C modifies "was"? I also feel it very weird. Is there any difference in meaning if we construe "as early as the 18th century" as an adverbial phrase modifying "was", or if we construe it as adjective phrase modifying "a well established method"?

And，regarding Choice E，"well established..." is used as an non-essential modifier of "a method", thus implying that there is only one method of mineral extraction all along? I can't tell from the original prompt whether leaching is the only one method there. So I think the use of non-essential modifier here is not a big deal. Please comment on my thought.

Thanks in advance.

[RonPurewal]

A method of extracting mineral is well established as early as the 18th century.
But is above sentence grammatically correct? Do we need an "in" between "established" and "as" in the above sentence? I feel it ugly to have "in" in between, but still think the sentence lacks a preposition for "the 18th century."

The grammar is fine, but the present tense is nonsense (the 18th century was three centuries ago).

It's ok to say that something "was happening as early as date X".

Also, since "as early as the 18th century" can not modify "a well established method", so "as early as the 18th century" in choice C modifies "was"? I also feel it very weird.

Yes, it describes when something "was well-established".

It may seem strange, but, as you pointed out above, anything else would be much stranger.

[RonPurewal]

Is there any difference in meaning if we construe "as early as the 18th century" as an adverbial phrase modifying "was", or if we construe it as adjective phrase modifying "a well established method"?

The first sentence makes sense. The second doesn't. (The second is like "Ron is on Thursday""”nonsense.)