* It is an oversimplified view of cattle raising

[tim]

okay so i've been talking to Ron about this offline, and although we haven't come to a full agreement on what is required in this sentence (he and i have different interpretations that both lead to C as a correct answer, which is all that really matters!), under his approach you can actually make "leave" out to be an infinitive and thus a noun-equivalent. take a look above at Ron's post from July 30, 2009. there he mentions that if there is a "to" earlier in the sentence introducing an infinitive parallel to the one in question, the "to" can apply to both, effectively making "leave" an infinitive as well. hopefully this answers your question about using a noun..

[josh_nsit]

okay so i've been talking to Ron about this offline, and although we haven't come to a full agreement on what is required in this sentence (he and i have different interpretations that both lead to C as a correct answer, which is all that really matters!), under his approach you can actually make "leave" out to be an infinitive and thus a noun-equivalent. take a look above at Ron's post from July 30, 2009. there he mentions that if there is a "to" earlier in the sentence introducing an infinitive parallel to the one in question, the "to" can apply to both, effectively making "leave" an infinitive as well. hopefully this answers your question about using a noun..

I fully agree that we need a parallel structure in this question, which C seems to have. I have read this forum for the 4th time now and am confused now. Let's keep D apart and discuss only C.

If I understand correctly, as per Ron, "leave them alone" acts a noun.

"all one has to do with cattle is _______"
in context, it should be clear that the blank should be filled with a noun -- or, at least, with something that plays the role of a noun...

Here comes my problem. Can this "leave them alone" in choice C qualify for a noun or even something which could play the role of a noun? It too much seems like a verb(al) construction. If it doesnt feel like a verbal, can you please provide some sample examples of this construction where a verb like construction has acted like a noun in object clause?

@Tim
If I understand your point, then in this sentence structure, you are assuming "leave them ..." to be a verbal clause construction(since having different perception from Ron for being a Noun) with "to" in subject clause(to do with cattle) shared across the subject and object clauses. But, I am doubtful whether such construction will be valid or not. It is always "To X is to Y" if X and Y are verbals, and not "To X is Y"(if "to" is shared across X=subject clause verbal and Y=object clause verbal). If some examples, where Y is verbal and still in format "To X is Y", can be furnished, it would be appreciable.

[RonPurewal]

josh --
i'll let tim give a fuller answer to this question -- not least because i actually have no idea what the terms "subject clause verbal" and "object clause verbal" mean -- but i do want to note one thing:
the things that you are calling "verbals" are specifically NOT verbs!
i.e., the term "verbal" is specifically used to refer to a construction, derived from a verb, that is used as a part of speech other than a verb.

for instance, infinitives are verbals -- meaning that they are not verbs and can't be verbs. in this case the infinitives are playing the role of nouns; in other cases they can be adjective-type modifiers (e.g., "the first swimmer to cross the english channel").
similarly, gerunds are verbals -- but they are nouns, not verbs (e.g., "swimming is fun").

i'll let tim address the rest of the issue.

[ss268]

These examples might suggest that ..., but not that subject and object infinitives should share a single "to." C shows that the GMAT observes no such rule; it's the OA, and the "to" is distributed over both the subject and the object of the clause. The GMAT is never wrong about the GMAT, so whatever rule they're observing is more subtle than this.

Thanks for admitting this... No GMAT instructor I actually know in person would have wanted to say that. While Ron's explanation that in C, 'to' in the subject phrase is shared by the 3 verbs in the object (complement?) phrase, does make sense, placing infinitive verbs without 'to' as the complement of a 'be verb' is still, simply, very something that I leaned in school as a big, big no-no. Hence, it really helps especially for non-natives to hear an explanation that GMAT sometimes defies a widely accepted, very basic grammar rule for the sake of clarity and effectiveness.

All after all, even without 'to,' C, among others, is the one that the most effectively conveys the meaning the sentence tries to convey, due to its proper parallelism. I see that...

[saptadeepc]

Ron - Although I 'am not worried about the non-underlined portion, I cant miss to see the "of NOUN VERBING" form.

In some questions we have eliminated the options with the help of this rule.

Is there an exception to this rule ?

If not, I hope we are not to choose an option based only on this rule.

[RonPurewal]

Ron - Although I 'am not worried about the non-underlined portion, I cant miss to see the "of NOUN VERBING" form.

In some questions we have eliminated the options with the help of this rule.

Is there an exception to this rule ?

If not, I hope we are not to choose an option based only on this rule.

read here
post26678.html#p26678

[supratim7]

the way you should process choice (c) is

It is an oversimplified view of cattle raising to say that all one has to do with cattle is
leave them alone while they feed themselves
and then
corral them and drive them to market when the time is ripe

choice (d) doesn't actually say that; it attempts to take the three verb forms and place them into a parallel list.
however, placing these three into a list is just as illogical as what you have cited here, since these three ideas are not all parallel to each other.
namely, "leave them alone" should appear by itself -- since this is the only thing you do with the cattle before they are ready for the market -- but then "corral" and "drive" should be parallel to each other, since those are two immediately sequential actions that occur when the cattle are ready for the market.

in addition, i have a very strong suspicion that the word "thing" will ALWAYS be incorrect when it appears -- it is extremely informal/colloquial and can always be replaced, in any context, by a better and more specific noun.

Thank you so much Ron for these insights.

you can't treat the sentence as though all three elements are in a list together, because ... they aren't.
(and, as you have accidentally pointed out, the punctuation of the sentence GUARANTEES that these items are not all part of the same list.)

You mean "absence of punctuation in the sentence GUARANTEES that these..." right??

okay so i've been talking to Ron about this offline, and although we haven't come to a full agreement on what is required in this sentence (he and i have different interpretations that both lead to C as a correct answer, which is all that really matters!)

Is that so? I thought ruling out any answer choice, especially on PRACTICE questions, on a wrong premise may be good for that particular question but fatal for others. Isn't ruling out a particular choice for a solid reason vital?

D: Is there anything grammatically wrong with choice D or is it just bad because it is in passive voice.

the biggest problem with choice (d) is "...is leave..."

that is an attempt to create an infinitive, WITHOUT using "to".
that would be fine IF there were another infinitive somewhere else in the sentence, containing "to" (to which this one could be parallel), but there isn't.

ron - what do you mean by the need for the infinitive "to" elsewhere in the sentence to ensure parallelism? what makes you say that?

well, consider the context in which this verb form appears:
"all one has to do with cattle is _______"
in context, it should be clear that the blank should be filled with a noun -- or, at least, with something that plays the role of a noun. in this case, that must be an infinitive. if you just make a list of verbs in this context, that's ungrammatical.

in a list of infinitives, it's fine if the second and later entries don't repeat the word "to" -- "to VERB1, VERB2, and VERB3" -- but you must have the "to" somewhere.

Tried multiple times, read all the replies, but could not understand this TO-related error in (D) i.e. how is (C) different from (D) as far as usage of TO is concerned?

Also, what is the MAIN error in (D)?

Many thanks

[RonPurewal]

Does anyone have actual proof that this problem is actually from the GMAT PREP software?

I've searched for it, and the only citations I've seen are (a) "1000SC" - a thoroughly useless document that is full of major errors (and that is banned on this forum), and (b) "GMAT Paper Tests", which are also banned on this forum (and which test all kinds of things that the current GMAT doesn't test).

so... someone, please post a screenshot of this problem IN the GMAT PREP software.
if that doesn't happen, then we'll have to kill this thread, regardless of its current length; we actually should have done this quality-control step a long time ago.

[thanghnvn]

this is a question from gmatprep

this question shows that our knowledge of grammar rules is weak. this question should not be dicussed so long.

[thanghnvn]

the only reason for which d is wrong is that d is in passive voice.

the pattern
the noun is to do
the noun is do
are both correct. this point is proved by official choice C.

am I correct?

[tim]

No.