Is 690 enough?

[HemantR606]

Hi Stacey,

I have just taken GMAT today (first attempt) and scored 690 - Q49, V35 (forgot to see AWA score in disappointment).

I have a few concerns with this score.

1. I used to score over 700 in the mock tests and scored a 760 on the final GMAT Prep Mock which I took 2 days before the test day(all questions in the mock were new to me).

2. I have messed up a little with the exam by leaving a question in the verbal part unattended and wasn't feeling quite comfortable in the test center, as the AC wasn't turned on making me feel a bit suffocated.

A breif description of myself:

I am a User Experience Designer with a bachelors in Computers. I have 3 years of work experience, not so great academics and decent contribution into college level athletics.

I am planning to go for a full time MBA.

My Questions:

Should I apply to universities with this score or should I take the test again?

Is 690 enough to apply for top universities?

---------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the help
Hemant

[StaceyKoprince]

Your best bet is to ask an admissions consultant. I can help you with what to do if you do decide to take it again - but I'm not an admissions consultant, so can't really gauge whether you should take it again.

Both of your subscores are solid - no cause for concern there. Your overall score is a bit below the average for the top schools - but remember that those numbers are averages. They accept plenty of people with 690s.

If your grades are also below the averag for the schools to which you want to apply, then you might need to kick up the GMAT score in an attempt to compensate. (No guarantees that that would work, of course.) But an admissions consultant is really the best person to ask.

My favorite adcon firm is MBA Mission and they offer free phone consults to people, so go over to their website and sign up! (And let me know what they say.)

[HemantR606]

Stacey,

First of all thanks a lot for such a fair advice.

As you have suggested I spoke to a consultant and a friend who completed his MBA from an Ivy League school.

While the consultant told me to go for GMAT again and target a better score, my friend told me to target a score of atleast 740, because that helps me in getting an admission in the universities I target(just what you have suggested to compensate below average academics).

Based on these suggestions, I have decided to take GMAT again.

Where I stand in GMAT preparation

Here is my existing situation with respect to GMAT examination.

QUANT:
From the day I have started GMAT preparation, I have neglected Quants. But lately I realized that quant is not as easy as I think. The end result was just from a 4 day preparation - I have worked with OG a few days before the examination.

Since I scored 49 in quant, I think (you may tell me if I am right) I can improve this to 51 if i practice with a proper plan.

VERBAL:

CR: From the beginning, I was comparatively good with CR and by the time I went for examination, I was able to get almost all the CR questions right on time except a very few...like..2 out of 30. I think(again, every time I say I think, you can add your opinion out of experience) I , since I haven't spent much effort on preparing for CR, I can achieve 100% accuracy.

RC: Initially, I have struggled a lot with the time management in RC, but after I read some advises online, including the blog post you have written, there was a dramatic change in the time I take to answer RC questions. By the time I took the test, I have finished most of the RC questions faster than SCs and CRs. And frankly speaking I haven't practiced at all for RCs because I was unable to find quality RC material on the internet.

SC: By far, SC has been the greatest enemy for me. I am a non-native speaker, and I had a real trouble finding the right answer in SC questions. I have spent 90% of my prep time for SC. I have completed the Manhattan SC guide and always considered it the Bible for SC. I remember all the concepts written in that book, even though I cannot say I am 100% thorough with the book. Idioms is my weakest area in SC.

Except for SC, I have prepared for the rest by practicing the questions in OG(timed practice) and by taking Manhattan mock tests.

I have seen you and Ron suggesting test takers to spend considerable time analyzing all the explanations given in OG for each and every question. I have tried this but I actually did this only with a few SC questions.

Moreover, Ron and you used to say that quality of preparation is more important than quantity. Even though I have tried to improve my quality of preparation, I don't think I have reached the optimum quality. Frankly speaking, quality preparation is way harder that the other.

My Requests:

1. Since I have covered all the questions in OG, i don't have any more quality resources to practice with(of course, i will go through each question again to analyze the solutions, but I cannot do timed practice). Please suggest me a way to find quality resources.(I have seen some additional preparation material on MBA.com. Will that be of good use?)

2. Please help me in preparing a robust study plan to achieve my target score(740+).

[StaceyKoprince]

If you are going to go for a 740, then you pretty much need to max out one of the two sections. Since you already got a 49 on quant, yes, you want to push that to 50 or 51. (Especially since you didn't really do much on quant and *still* got a 49, that one's likely going to be the easier one to push to the top.)

I'm going to guess that you don't have our 5 quant strategy guides - it sounds like you just used OG. If you already have a 49, you don't need most of what's in the main chapters, but there are Extras chapters at the end of each book that get into more advanced material.

We also have an Advanced Quant book - you might be okay jumping straight to that, but just be aware that we assumed, when writing that book, that people had already learned everything in the 5 main strategy guides (including the Extras chapters). So you may see things in the Advanced Quant book that you don't know how to do and that we don't explain, because it's explained in the main strategy guides.

Let me know how you think you'd like to proceed on quant.

CR - you're always going to make some mistakes / fall into some traps, so if you're already that good at CR, then this one isn't a great bet to make a big difference in your score.

RC - this is faster now... how's the accuracy? Going fast on RC (especially detail questions) can result in careless mistakes - it's important to check the passage to confirm the proof for your answer, for example. If you have already used the OG materials and are looking for more, try the extra problems you can purchase through the GMATPrep software.

SC - it's good to know the book; there's also another level of knowing how to work your way through a problem / apply the book knowledge to actual questions. They're quite good at disguising stuff on SC.

Start here:
http://tinyurl.com/scprocess

And:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... st-glance/

And then try the articles linked in this one:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... orrection/

I have seen you and Ron suggesting test takers to spend considerable time analyzing

Yes, but not quite. I wouldn't recommend analyzing the OG explanations. I recommend analyzing the OG problems and answer choices. This is how you will learn 80% of what you need to learn at this stage.

Here's how:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -the-gmat/

Go try that out with SC and let me know what you think. Then try it for RC and CR. :) (And don't forget quant!)

[HemantR606]

Hi Stacey,

This is a very old thread and to breif you about what happened in this thread earlier - I have taken the test once and scored 690 on it, and asked you for suggestions to improve my score for the next attempt.

I took a long break (about 7 months) before I have started preparation again. I have started from more than a month and did the following:

First 2 weeks:
Went through the new Manhattan SC guide and CR Bible. Practiced RC from LSAT RC passages.
I have tried practicing the first glance skills you have suggested, but I did not do that persistently.

Second 2 weeks:
Started serious preparation

SC
As you have suggested me, I have practiced the OG questions. I have made a schedule of solving 20 questions one day, reviewing all 20 questions (every answer choice) the next day, and repeat. Now I am done with all the OG and Verbal Review questions. I have also made my own book of OG SC explanations by noting down all the observations during the practice.

Accuracy - Even though my accuracy level increased after about 4 sessions of practicing 20 question sets, it is not 100% yet. About 2-4 questions were going wrong in every set of 20.

Timing- I have tried to follow the timing you have suggested in a blog post - 1min 15s; max of 2 minutes. I was able to do most of the questions in the time range of 0:55min to 1:30min, but tough ones are taking 1:50 to 2:10 minutes.

CR
I have completed CR Bible and then have done OG practice by taking sets of 40 questions at a time. I am not done with VR questions yet, but I will do them in 1 more.

Accuracy - In each set of 40 questions, about 2-4 questions are going wrong and almost all the wrongs were silly mistakes which I have made by not reading the argument properly. I didnt find any difficulty in understanding the logic. Boldface questions which are usually considered difficult aren't troubling me and I got all of them right within 2 minutes except on question which I marked wrong.

Timing- Easy questions took me around 1:30min and difficult ones took 2:00 to 2:30min. Rarely some questions took 3min or more when I lacked concentration.

Problem: I did not identify any effective way of reviewing the questions I have solved as I did for SC. The logic seemed clear to me in almost all the questions and hence I did not spend much time on reveiwing or notes taking. Please let me know if there is any effective reviewing method to improve my accuracy and speed.

RC
I have only practiced LSAT passages because the most difficult passage subjects for me are politics, law, humanities etc. I found LSAT passages very difficult and the accuracy is poor as well. However I have ralized that even the longest passages in OG were not as long as an average LSAT passage. Since my problem was with comprehending through the very long passages - especially the final few paragraphs, I think GMAT passages won't trouble me so much.

Since I have solved all the OG and VR passages once during my first preparation, I think I need to buy extra questions from MBA.com

Quant
I haven't practiced quant much but I am going through Manhattan quant guides. I will start with Advanced guide in a couple of days, once I brush up all the concepts once.


I have my exam on 5th june, 2015. I have slightly less than a month left. I need some suggestion regarding my plan for this month.

I want to practice IR as well.

I have not taken any mock test during my second preparation. I took 6 Manhattan, 1 Veritas, 1 economist and 2 GMAT prep mock tests during my preparation for my first attempt.

I still have access to Manhattan tests and I can reset them. I am planning to buy GMAT prep paid software too.


So, based on my current level of preparation,

Please suggest me a study plan for this month which can help me score 740+

Also, can you tell me which software to purchase from MBA.com. Two softwares seemed interesting to me -
1. GMATPrep Exam Pack (Contains 2 tests and 90 additional questions)
2. GMATPrep Question Pack (Contains 200 quant, 180 verbal and 24 IR questions)
Shall I buy both of them?


Thank You.

[StaceyKoprince]

it is not 100% yet

I know this is going to sound weird at first, but your goal is not to get to 100% accuracy.

First, on the test itself, you will never have 100% accuracy.

Second, if you are 100% accurate on everything you study...then you are not actually learning how to get better! If you are looking to improve (and you are, right?), then you want to get (some) stuff wrong, because that's exactly when you're going to learn how to get better!

For SC:

tough ones are taking 1:50 to 2:10 minutes.

1. How often does that happen?
2. How much does your accuracy suffer compared to the ones that are taking you more normal time?

You can spend closer to 2m on a small subset of questions IF the extra time is actually paying off. At the least, your accuracy on those hard ones should be generally as high as your accuracy on the ones that you can answer in normal time. If you're spending a bunch of extra time and your accuracy is dropping more than a little anyway, then the extra time is not worth it.

Note: I often have students tell me, "Oh, my accuracy is 50-60% on the normal-time ones, but it's still 40% on the harder ones where I take longer." Remind yourself that, if you read nothing at all and just guess randomly, your performance will be 20%. In that context, 40% is not that great - not if you're having to spend a lot of extra time to get it!

CR:

sets of 40 questions at a time

If you haven't finished yet, STOP. There is no circumstance in which you would ever be asked to answer 40 CR questions in a row, so don't study that way. (In fact, don't do 20 SC in a row, either).

Once you have learned the basics for each question type, you are far better off doing mixed sets of questions that mimic the real test. These sets should be shorter than the real test, though - maybe 10 to 15 questions each. You're going to learn best by iterating: do one set of 15 mixed questions, analyze / study / learn how to get better, then test out your new-found skills on the next set of 15 mixed questions, and so on.

You asked how to review CR. I recommend reviewing all questions using this broad method:
http://tinyurl.com/2ndlevelofgmat

If you are answering almost everything correctly, though, and most of the ones that you do answer incorrectly are careless mistakes, then what you need to do is figure out why you're making these specific mistakes and what you can do to minimize mistakes of the same type in future:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -the-gmat/

Your next task is to take a practice CAT. We need to see what your current scoring level is and we need an analysis of your strengths and weaknesses. That will tell you what you actually need to study / practice and how. So go ahead and take one of our CATs and analyze it:
http://tinyurl.com/analyzeyourcats

Then come back here and tell us the results of your analysis. I will be looking for you to tell me what your Bucket 2 categories are (you'll understand when you read the article).

Re: the GMATPrep materials, the two exams are good if you need more exams. It's been a while since you took the free ones (and ours), though, so you may not need to buy new ones.

The question pack is also good - when you're ready for it. But right now, you don't know whether yo're learning from the questions in the most effective way, so don't use those new questions up yet until you make sure that you're actually studying in an effective manner. (Which starts with taking a CAT and analyzing it!)

[HemantR606]

HI Stacey,

I have taken GMAT yesterday (second attempt) and scored a 650, which is 40 less than my previous score .

This happened because of a very stupid mistake I made during the test. I left a question unanswered in quant and, as a result, I was totally worried about the test. I was unable to concentrate on the verbal part at all(I gave up as soon as I missed a question on quant). Finally I ended up with the following raw scores:

Quant: 49 (I still can't understand how I got 49 even after leaving a question unanswered)
Verbal: 28

In the last 3 practice tests I have taken over the last 2 weeks, my scores were pretty consistent. 1 was GMAT Prep test and the other 2 were GMAT Exam Pack tests purchased from MBA.com. The scores were-

1. 730 - Q48, V42
2. 730 - Q49, V40
3. 730 - Q49, V40

As I said earlier in this thread, my target score is 740.

I have cancelled the score I got yesterday and I am planning to take the test in a month.

Before asking doubts, I will tell what my current situation is in terms of preparation

SC:
I have followed the advice you have given me after my first attempt. I made my own explanations list for all the questions in OG, Verbal Review, GMAT Question Pack and all the SC questions I have faced in official practice tests. In this list, I have noted down all the mistakes in the wrong options of all the questions by going through forums online (I have left about 30 questions in doing so as I was still not clear about them).

My accuracy has drastically improved after doing this work with SC but I still struggle with some types of questions, especially comparisons and questions which test purely meaning and style. I was getting around 14 answers right out of the 17 that appear in a practice test.

Timing is still a concern because I am taking about 2 minutes for some tough questions.

CR:
CR is my strong area and I got around 11 correct among the 12 questions I face in each practice test.

I still want to improve the timing in CR since, some questions are consuming around 2.30 mins.

RC:
I was struggling a bit with RC and I think this happened because I didn't practice much.

Overall timing in Practice tests:
I ran out of time in the verbal sections of each and every practice test I have taken. I have blindly marked at least last 2 questions of each practice test I have taken.

So, My questions:

1. How should I prepare for this month?
As I have already mentioned, I am planning to take the test on 27 July.
I have no official questions left to practice with.
Unfortunately, most of the questions I still have doubt with are from OG or other paid GMAC resources and hence are banned in Manhattan forum. So, how can I proceed with them?
How should I improve my timing in CR and SC. (I have followed the techniques you have suggested in your blog posts, but they didn't help me in tough SC questions which test pure meaning.)

2. What practice tests should I use now?
I ran out of all the MGMAT practice tests, Gmat Prep tests and even the GMAT exam pack tests.
Since I remember most of the questions in MGMAT or GMAT Prep practice tests, can you give your opinion about the other practice tests in the market (Economist, Kaplan, Veritas, Princeton & GMAT Club)?

3. Is it ok to use LSAT RC passages for practice?
I found a word document named 116 LSAT passages which are claimed to be retired LSAT passages. They are considerably longer and seem to be tougher than GMAT RC passages. So, can I use them for GMAT RC practice?
Losing concentration is my major problem in solving RC Passages.


--------------------------------------------------
Your suggestions were of immense help for me in the past.
Thanks a lot,
Hemant

[StaceyKoprince]

Oh, it's too bad that you got so distracted by that. Now you know that just one question won't kill your score, even if you leave it blank.

The good news is: you got that 49 on quant! So you've got a very good chance to be able to do it again.

SC:

Timing is still a concern because I am taking about 2 minutes for some tough questions.

And how often are those actually paying off? Check the stats. If the ones that have to do with meaning (or anything else!) are often wrong anyway, then bail on these. You want to make sure that you are not costing yourself points on easier questions elsewhere because you are pressed for time or becoming mentally fatigued.

CR:

I still want to improve the timing in CR since, some questions are consuming around 2.30 mins.

Given your accuracy level, that's okay as long as it's only a few. Is your average close to 2 minutes for this question type?

I have blindly marked at least last 2 questions of each practice test I have taken.

Not enough. Seriously! Do that at least 4 times in each verbal section! Just make sure you have time to read enough to select the absolute hardest questions.

Your questions:
(1) Do you have access to our GMAT Navigator program? You can find our own solutions for many of the OG problems there. You can also try another site, such as Beat the GMAT. There's also tutoring - which is really expensive. But it is one way to study. Re: timing, see my notes above.

(2) I haven't looked at the tests of all of the companies you have listed. I unfortunately don't have a recommendation here, because the ones that I have looked at were...not something I would recommend to my students.

Have you tried re-doing MPrep or GMATPrep tests to see how many old questions you are actually given? The databases hold more questions than the tests give you.

(3) LSAT RC is generally harder than GMAT RC, yes, so if you feel that you can handle that level, then these can be good practice. They're overkill for most people, but your verbal scores are high enough that you would probably find these useful.

And thanks for the kind words; you are very welcome!