In some species of Cricket, the number of chirps per minute

[davetzulin]

E. to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, in fact possibly serving.

Why E is wrong here. I think that 'serving' (comma + present participle) will modify the entire previous clause and therefore the total act will serve as a thermometer.

Where I am wrong - pl advise.

have you read the thread?

i know this thread is long, but stacey gave a very complete explanation of choice (e) in the second or third post from the top.

sorry had to ask this!


In some species of cricket, the number of chirps per minute used by the male for attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and they can in fact serve as an approximate thermometer.

E. to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, in fact possibly serving [as an approximate thermometer]

despite what Stacey mentioned before, if this is comma + ing, the doesn't it imply that "serving as a thermometer" is the consequence of the previous clause?

The chirps per minute are used as mating calls and it is only incidental that maybe scientists or native people can use them as a thermometer, it is not the direct consequence right?

[thulsy]

Dear instructor(s),
Could you please help me understand why the usage of "and" is correct in Choice D?

Choice (D) reads:
In some species of Cricket, the number of chirps per minute used by the male to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and it can infact serve as an approximate thermometer

Ron have taught us that "and" should mean that these items are independent and equal in priority.
Example (cited from Thursday With Ron Mar 15, 2012):
A truck crashed in front of me on the freeway, and I was late to work.
(The implicit idea is that I was *not* late because of the crash)

Back to this question, I think the first part is saying:
"the number rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature"
and the second part is saying:
"it (the number) can serve as an approximate thermometer"
So I think the two parts are not independent. Rather, they are logically connected (i.e. the first part serves as the reason for the 2nd part).
Therefore, I doubt the usage of "and" in correct choice D.
Am I wrong?

I understand Stacey's points regarding why choice E is incorrect ("in fact possibly serving" is awkward, and "possibly" distorts the original meaning expressed in "can"). In my attempt to answer this question, unfortunately, I extracted the sentence core to examine the "macro" logic:
(D) The number rises and falls in accordance with temperature, and it serves as a thermometer.
(E) The number rises and falls in accordance with temperature, serving as a thermometer.

So based on the core logic, I think choice (E), which uses "comma + v-ing" adverbial modifier, is better in conveying the logical relationship, whereas in choice (D) the "and" improperly conveys a meaning of independence. So I chose (E).

Please let me know what went wrong with me... Your help is greatly appreciated.

In some species of Cricket, the number of chirps per minute used by the male for attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and they can infact serve as an approximate thermometer

1. Same
2. for attracting females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, which can infact serve
3. in attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, infact possibly serving
4. to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and it can infact serve
5. to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, infact possibly serving

The ans is between D and E.
Please explain why.. :evil: [/url]

[RonPurewal]

E. to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, in fact possibly serving.

Why E is wrong here. I think that 'serving' (comma + present participle) will modify the entire previous clause and therefore the total act will serve as a thermometer.

Where I am wrong - pl advise.

have you read the thread?

i know this thread is long, but stacey gave a very complete explanation of choice (e) in the second or third post from the top.

sorry had to ask this!


In some species of cricket, the number of chirps per minute used by the male for attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and they can in fact serve as an approximate thermometer.

E. to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, in fact possibly serving [as an approximate thermometer]

despite what Stacey mentioned before, if this is comma + ing, the doesn't it imply that "serving as a thermometer" is the consequence of the previous clause?

The chirps per minute are used as mating calls and it is only incidental that maybe scientists or native people can use them as a thermometer, it is not the direct consequence right?

i think the real issue there is the weird combination of "in fact" and "possibly". after all, if something is just possible, then it's not a fact.
note that, in the correct answer, "possibly" is replaced by "can", which is a fact (i.e., it's factual that the chirping rate can be used as a thermometer, whether or not people actually choose to use it as such).

[thulsy]

Thanks, Ron. so, if I get it correctly:
can -- capability (cannot mean "probability")
possibly -- probability. incompatible with "in fact"

[jlucero]

I would say this instead:

can = has the ability to
possibly = might be able to

If you are a cricketologist and know how many chirps per minute equal 80 degrees, you CAN use this as an approximate thermometer.

[peter_griffin]

I am stuck on D and E
Seems like I am picking from something that is not so good and outright bad.
Ron , can you please help me understand this .

(D) to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and it can in fact serve

Now , "to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and it can in fact serve"

it can serve has to be independent of the first clause , but it isnt , in fact it is dependent on the previous clause , and i would have been very happy if i saw a word like thus in there ( and it thus represents) ...

Ron can you help fill my gap in understanding here ?

thanks in advance

[jlucero]

You're confusing preference with necessity here. I agree that you could use a "thus" here, but I don't think it's necessary. "The number of chirps can serve as an approximate thermometer" is a perfectly fine sentence all on its own. While the first clause offers a reason WHY it can be used a thermometer, that doesn't mean you can't use the clause by itself.

[mcmebk]

i think the real issue there is the weird combination of "in fact" and "possibly". after all, if something is just possible, then it's not a fact.
note that, in the correct answer, "possibly" is replaced by "can", which is a fact (i.e., it's factual that the chirping rate can be used as a thermometer, whether or not people actually choose to use it as such).[/quote]

Hi Ron, when we have the options between "Comma, Verbing" and a separate main clause, you used examples similiar to:

I got up late today, delaying my project - indicating there is a strong connection between the fact getting up late and delaying my project;

I got up late today, and I delayed my project - Indicating that these two events are not conntected with strong causation relationship.

I wonder if this principle applies to this question. It seems to me that D can better express the relationship than E does, but I can not really put it into words...Is my understanding reasonable at all?

Thank you Ron.

[jlucero]

Hi Ron, when we have the options between "Comma, Verbing" and a separate main clause, you used examples similiar to:

I got up late today, delaying my project - indicating there is a strong connection between the fact getting up late and delaying my project;

I got up late today, and I delayed my project - Indicating that these two events are not conntected with strong causation relationship.

I wonder if this principle applies to this question. It seems to me that D can better express the relationship than E does, but I can not really put it into words...Is my understanding reasonable at all?

Thank you Ron.

Absolutely. Two different clauses vs one causal relationship. The crickets don't do this to help people determine their temperature. But this is a second, discrete purpose of the chirping.

[yuanhongzhi0830]

I have the same concerns with D and E, in which case I got myself focused on the "meaning part"
I think these two clause are logically connected, so I choose E over D.
If this judgement fails to be true, then how can we judge from the sentences that they are independent from each other? Because a lot of questions require us to take a pick between", ing" and "and clause"

[RonPurewal]

"in fact" contradicts "possibly".

"in fact" implies that something is ... well, a fact.
"possibly" implies that it's uncertain.
can't have both.

in the correct answer, "possibly" is replaced with a definite statement that the # of chirps CAN be used as a thermometer.

[ivonnecy]

I read the whole thread and I know A, C, E are not right, but I still don't know why B is wrong?

We should not eliminate choices between "for attracting" and "to attract" and remember that PRONOUN AMBIGUITY IS NOT AN ABSOLUTE RULE. So how we do with B? In light of that statement, we will regard B as correct as E.

puzzled deadly.
Hope for any replies from instructors.

[RonPurewal]

I read the whole thread and I know A, C, E are not right, but I still don't know why B is wrong?

In choice B, "which" describes "temperature", so you end up with a sentence that says the temperature is "an approximate thermometer".
First, that's not the intended meaning in context -- the crickets' chirping is the "approximate thermometer". Second, it's nonsense (the temperature doesn't measure itself).

[ivonnecy]

I read the whole thread and I know A, C, E are not right, but I still don't know why B is wrong?

In choice B, "which" describes "temperature", so you end up with a sentence that says the temperature is "an approximate thermometer".
First, that's not the intended meaning in context -- the crickets' chirping is the "approximate thermometer". Second, it's nonsense (the temperature doesn't measure itself).

I see....Besides the points you've mentioned above, I got a new thought. Correct me if it is wrong.
We do need to use "which" to refer to "number" but choice B creates an ambiguity. Although we should not use the AMBIGUITY RULE, choice D totally avoids this issue and is more parallel so we should prefer choice D.

Also, when it comes to "which", I always get confused whether it is an AMBIGUITY issue. Is there any helpful thread or resources I can learn from?

thanks in advance：）

[RonPurewal]

We do need to use "which" to refer to "number" but choice B creates an ambiguity. Although we should not use the AMBIGUITY RULE, choice D totally avoids this issue and is more parallel so we should prefer choice D.

No, choice B does not "create an ambiguity".
"Which" in choice B is unequivocally, unambiguously, totally 100% wrong.

In all of its materials published thus far, GMAC has used "which" only to modify 2 kinds of things:
* Nouns
* Noun + preposition + noun
Nothing else.

So, in choice B, "which" refers to "temperature". Nonsense.

Also, when it comes to "which", I always get confused whether it is an AMBIGUITY issue. Is there any helpful thread or resources I can learn from?

No issue of ambiguity. If "which" refers to one of the two types of constructions above (and makes sense in context), then it's fine. If not, it's wrong.