In 1914 a total cars and trucks

[RonPurewal]

Dose the expression " by themselves" conveys the idea that the trucks came off the assembly line automatically by themselves?

yes it does.

[JustinCKN]

also, Choice A is wrong because of "numbers" or because of "the", compared to Choice B?

Both of those are problematic.
"Numbers" doesn't make sense. We're talking about a single number, not about more than one number.
"The number" doesn't indicate that we are referring to the previously mentioned number.

Hi dear Ron:
If the choice A is modified into " twice the number of trucks alone" . Is the modification right?
The difference between the modified Choice A and correct choice B is " the number".
In my view, the number can refer to the specific number mentioned earlier.

Thanks .
Sincerely
JustinCKN.

[RonPurewal]

DO NOT 'make your own versions' of GMAC's sentences.
really.
don't do it.

the GMAT only tests 1-2% of the things that can actually go wrong with english sentences (and even that may be an overestimate).
when random users try to 'edit' these sentences, the result is almost always inferior or incorrect—for reasons that the GMAT doesn't test.

making your own examples is good, but they should be...
...1/ your own examples,
...2/ SIMPLE examples, each illustrating only ONE concept (that is actually tested on this exam).

as far as the official problems are concerned, the given answer choices should be challenging enough already.
(:


__



no, that would not work, because it would no longer say which number we were referring to.

[JustinCKN]

DO NOT 'make your own versions' of GMAC's sentences.
really.
don't do it.

the GMAT only tests 1-2% of the things that can actually go wrong with english sentences (and even that may be an overestimate).
when random users try to 'edit' these sentences, the result is almost always inferior or incorrect—for reasons that the GMAT doesn't test.

making your own examples is good, but they should be...
...1/ your own examples,
...2/ SIMPLE examples, each illustrating only ONE concept (that is actually tested on this exam).

as far as the official problems are concerned, the given answer choices should be challenging enough already.
(:


__



no, that would not work, because it would no longer say which number we were referring to.

Ron. I will draw the lessons you show me and avoid editing the GMAC's sentences next time.
Thanks for your reply.
sincerely!

[RonPurewal]

you're welcome.

[JustinCKN]

Hi Ron:
Will you show me some examples concerning difference between" themselves“ and "by themselves".
Thanks
Sincerely!
JustinCKN

[RonPurewal]

if you just want to see examples, the best way to do that is to search the internet, especially relatively well-written sources (such as the new york times).

to search for "by themselves" in new york times articles, just type into google:
site:nytimes.com "by themselves"
(including the quotes)

then just scroll through those examples, and see how "by themselves" is used in the text.

if you can find another actual GMAT problem in which this is an issue, then it might be worth discussing further; otherwise, it's basically just a distraction from more important things.

[JustinCKN]

if you just want to see examples, the best way to do that is to search the internet, especially relatively well-written sources (such as the new york times).

to search for "by themselves" in new york times articles, just type into google:
site:nytimes.com "by themselves"
(including the quotes)

then just scroll through those examples, and see how "by themselves" is used in the text.

if you can find another actual GMAT problem in which this is an issue, then it might be worth discussing further; otherwise, it's basically just a distraction from more important things.

YES .Ron, I remember that you have told me that "Focus on the important things,do not be distracted by minor part."
Thanks. sincerely.
JustinCKN.

[RonPurewal]

you're welcome.

[Crisc419]

In 1914 a total of 469,000 cars and trucks were produced in the United States, but in 1929 almost twice the numbers of trucks alone came off the assembly lines


A) Same
b) that number of trucks alone
c) the number of trucks by themselves
d) as many trucks themselves
e) as many trucks by themselves
OA : B
GPrep Q

Got stuck between B and D ..

Isn't twice as many as ..correct usage ?

Thanks

two problems with (d).

#1
the meaning of the sentence is that the number of trucks in 1929 was almost twice 469,000.
choice (b) conveys this idea accurately, with the phrase "twice that number". see, "that number" must refer to an actual number cited in the sentence, and there is only one such number. mission accomplished.
choice (d) DOES NOT convey this idea. that choice says "twice AS MANY trucks", which means "twice as many trucks as were produced in 1914".
the problem is that the sentence doesn't tell us how many trucks were produced in 1914 - the only figure given is a combined figure for cars and trucks - so this statement doesn't make any sense in context.
not to mention, the intended meaning (from the original flawed sentence) is clearly that of (b).

#2
"trucks themselves" doesn't make sense.
you don't use "x itself" unless you are trying to emphasize some element of the inherent nature of x (as opposed to something associated with x, or with some part of x).
example: pet accessories are becoming more and more popular, even though pets themselves have maintained constant popularity.
i.e., we want to emphasize that the second part of the sentence deals with pets themselves (as opposed to associated things such as pet accessories).
"trucks alone", though, makes perfect sense.

"trucks BY themselves" is getting closer to the intended idea, but it's still wrong (it seems to be in contrast to "trucks sold in packages with other things").

I can get your point, but are you using different ways to read the choices.

for instance:

1/ B.twice ( that number) of trucks alone
you read this chioce like "twice ( that number) of trucks alone" , and "that number" is 469,000, so this choice is right; however, if we read like " twice ( that number of trucks ) alone", then we don't know what is "that number of trucks".

2/ C.twice the number of trucks by themselves
you read this chioce like "twice ( the number of trucks ) by themselves" and we don't know what is (the number of trucks) , so chioce C is wrong. however, if we read like " twice ( the number) of trucks alone", then it is more clear, altough still inferior to "that number".

and you read choice A, D, E in the same way as you read choice C.

You use different ways to read different choices , so i feel confused. I am not sure whether you can get my point.

could you give more explanation?

Thanks in advance.
Cris

[RonPurewal]

i'm sorry, but i don't have any better way to explain this. if it still doesn't make sense, just let it go—the chance that these exact constructions will be tested again is basically nil.

however, if we read like " twice ( that number of trucks ) alone"

you can't read it like this ^^, because that's nonsense. "twice X alone" is a self-contradictory phrase (if something is twice X, then it's NOT X alone).