Ice-polished rocks - MGMAT SC text clarification

[RonPurewal]

'had __ed' doesn't just say 'hey, this was earlier'.
(honestly, it would be completely frivolous to have a whole separate tense for this purpose, since context will almost always make the order of events amply clear. also, it would create serious problems if the order of the events wasn't known or wasn't relevant.)

'had __ed' generally serves 2 purposes:

1/
to emphasize the fact that something had been completed, or had created some sort of effect, on the situation of the past-tense action:
When the fire started, all of the employees had already left the building. (the impact of the employees' departure here is pretty clear.)

2/
to describe something ongoing up to the timeframe of the past-tense action, and directly affected by that action:
After 25 years, Roy finally found the inner peace that he had been seeking. (he had been seeking it ... right up until the moment when he found it.)

clearly, these things are hard to describe, and you should NOT attempt to learn them as 'rules'. instead, just read a large number of examples of them in well-written sources, and pay close attention to context.

[RonPurewal]

^^ note, in particular, the whole idea of 'completion' there. that's significant. in general, the action of 'had __ed' was no longer happening in the past-tense timeframe!

e.g.,
It was the early 1990s, a wild time when huge numbers of rogue businesses were appearing in industries that had for so long been monopolized by Communist state-owned firms.
^^ note that, in this timeframe, the communist government-owned firms did not monopolize these industries anymore. (in fact, this is pretty much the whole point of the sentence.)

for the same reason, 'ice sheets had existed...' suggests—ironically—that the ice sheets were already gone by the advent of this 'age' (just as the communist firms were gone by the timeframe of the sentence above).

[RonPurewal]

...and, finally, BY FAR the most important thing i can write here:

if you see past tense vs. 'had __ed', there will almost certainly be other—probably easier—ways to eliminate those choices.

in the problem you're citing here, for instance, both choices with 'had existed' are written in ways that refer to current climatic conditions. you can't have past things happening in current areas, so, boom, both of them are gone, and there's no need to worry about 'had __ed' at all.

[kedieez967]

First and foremost, let me re-iterate a piece of advice I've given you several times: Do not edit GMAC's sentences.
Doing so will almost always create issues that are not tested on the exam.

The combination of "there are areas" and "where..." is redundant / unnecessarily wordy. You'd use either ... in what are now temperate areas or ...where the climate is now temperate.

Dear Ron, i have a little confusion about " ...where the climate is now temperate".

since "where" is a noun here and "the climate is now temperate" is a noun modifier referring to "where", therefore "in" should be placed in front of "where".

i am not sure about my understanding. could you give me some kind help?

Thank you very much!

Best wishes!

[RonPurewal]

1/
'where' is not a noun.
in choice C, 'where' is a modifier of the preceding sentence. in the other four choices 'where' does not appear at all.

2/

Dear Ron, i have a little confusion about " ...where the climate is now temperate".

??
none of the answer choices contains this construction—or even anything resembling it. where are you getting this construction?

[kedieez967]

First and foremost, let me re-iterate a piece of advice I've given you several times: Do not edit GMAC's sentences.
Doing so will almost always create issues that are not tested on the exam.

The combination of "there are areas" and "where..." is redundant / unnecessarily wordy. You'd use either ... in what are now temperate areas or ... where the climate is now temperate.

"Where ___" can also act as a noun.

sorry, i did not express my question clearly.

i do not understand the bold face in your reply.
since "where ___" is a noun here and "the climate is now temperate" is a modifier referring to "where", therefore "in" should be placed in front of "where".

is it right? could you give me an example about it?

Thank you very much!

Best wishes!

[RonPurewal]

'where ____' can act as a noun in other contexts, not in this sentence. (note the immediately following example, whose structure is absolutely nothing like that of the sentence at hand.)

[Md Abdur Rakib]

Pls explain the usage of 'in which' and 'when'
can we eleminate the options here on the basis of 'in which/when' split??

nope. in this case, both are fine.

If usage of both 'in which and when' is right and if option 'E' is modified to - 'when great ice sheets existed in areas that are now temperate', then between 'B' and the modified 'E', which is a better option?

if you made those changes at the end of choice (e), then it would become another correct version of the sentence. in that case, each of (b) and (e) would be just as good as the other.

I am confused to use "in what" to choose correct answer here.Can you explain when it is preferred to eliminate answer choice included with "in what"?

[RonPurewal]

you can't think of "in what" as a single construction, because ... it's not a single construction. you aren't breaking the words apart properly.

"what are now xxxx" is a whole phrase that acts like a noun... and then you can put "in" in front of that phrase, just as you can put "in" in front of any other noun.

this discussion thread already has about 70 posts. please read the ENTIRE discussion thread -- which already contains copious treatment of each of those answer choices -- and, if you still have questions after reading the entire discussion thread, then post your specific questions. thanks.

[ZoeZ42]

great ice sheets existed in (what are now temperate) areas
is the same as:
ice sheets existed in areas that are now temperate

hi Joe,

I think of it as clause + prep + WH- + clause

would you please clarify this structure? and give me some examples?
I am always confused with this struture,
i have no idea that WH- would refers to, and that the order of WH - clause


desiring your reply soon
have a nice weekend
>_~

[RonPurewal]

this problem is from OG. unless this problem is ALSO in the FREE GMATPrep software—and someone can upload a screenshot as proof—we cannot host any further discussion of it.

thank you for respecting the forum rules.