Goal: TOP tier MBA. Advice sought on two career options!!!

[lonelyimpulseofdelight]

Hi Akiba,

Great to see you offering such a service for free...I'm hoping to take advantage of this fact! This is a LONG post, so be warned. If you are willing to take out five minutes though, you could really, really help me out!! I want to get your advice on two career options that are available to me, particularly with respect to to their impact on my chances for business school and my long term career prospects.

My background:

Citizen of a developing Asian country. Turning 23 in a couple of months. Spent about five years in Western Europe (including high school years). Moved to the US for college. Graduated in Aug '08 from a top ten public school (on the lower end, think Wisc/Illinois/Virginia) with a Bachelor's in an applied math field. Shameful overall GPA of 3.2, shameful major GPA of 3.2. Very inconsistent performances throughout the four years. Was legitimately sick for one semester, had to document my illness for immigration purposes, and screwed my finance GPA then (took half my finance credits in that semester). Otherwise the low GPA is all on me. Unmotivated, partying way too much, dabbling in all kinds of nonsense, not caring enough, not thinking about consequences. Got interesting but no-name work experience during undergrad. Between sophomore and junior year designed a pricing and reserving mechanism for weather-related insurance for my home country's largest insurance company, lots of research, decent scope/impact of work. In the next summer, hedged liabilities for a global insurance giant - specifically, involved in index volatility modeling, worked with a quant on a GARCH and a modified Heston model for the whole summer, and became interested in finance. Fair amount of meaningful but no-profile ECs: mentoring kids, volunteering at foster home, teaching at-risk high schoolers, etc etc. Passed a couple of actuarial exams and tutored on that as well.

After graduation, took up an actuarial position with one of the top actuarial consultancies. (For location, girlfriend, friends and *decent* paycheck, but certainly not for any inherent interest in actuarial science). Worked there till August this year, constantly lamented about my poor choice, thought about a move to strategy consulting or banking everyday, something with a bigger, more general scope that actuarial science. On the plus side, got my old high-school work ethic back to some extent (Had graduated ranked 1st from an International School). Worked *long* hours (not banking long, mere mortal long, think 65-70). Decision to get a move on became easy because there was a problem at home; packed my bags and headed home.

Looking forward:

Am now presented with two possible options. On the one side is further education in the form of a Master's in Finance, on the other, a crazy, unconventional general management opportunity in a greenfield plant in Spain. A top-tier MBA is part of my plans in either case. Want to get into TOP tier ibanking/PE/VC/Hedge Fund/strategy consulting as soon as possible.

1. The Master's in Finance option: Took the GRE and scored 1500 (800m,700,6.0), might take it again for a 1600. Previously had 1600 on the SAT. Will take the GMAT after preparing, maybe in a couple of weeks. Don't expect to score less than 770. Took it once, just for fun, during undergrad and got 750. Have decent relevant work experience. Lowly but not abysmal GPA. Solid recommendations from people in finance, and a finance professor. Hoping for an admit to at least one of the big names (well, probably not Princeton haha, but maybe MIT, Oxford, LSE, and if not these then the second tier ones like Imperial, Warwick, WashU in St. Loius). Apps are almost gone. Managed to land an *investment banking* internship in my home country, with the country's biggest private sector bank. Not a formal program, but a personal favor from a relationship I cultivated a while back. Going to start next month and last till May or June next year. Then will begin a (hopefully good) program. Graduate with better grades this time around, higher-profile ECs, maybe a couple of elected positions. Hopefully land a decent job in finance - hallelujahs of all the angels if it's front office. Not going to happen easily if the degree's from the second tiers I mentioned. Certainly not from anything lower. Master's students are usually screwed - no one wants to hire them.

2. The crazy greenfield option: Skip the Master's in Finance, aim for an MBA (2012 entry). Got invited to work as the second-in-command in a jack-of-all-trades/management/general counsel role at a greenfield steel-products manufacturing operation in Spain. Befriended the son of a moderately big steel industrialist during undergrad. He recommended me for the role without me even knowing about it. The parent company has a decent turnover of ~750 million Euros. They are expanding internationally. Want to make Spain a hub in the near future. The Spanish operation is going to be small - expecting a turnover of 10 million Euros in the first year (2010). Are adamant about seeing a continuous growth to at least 100 million Euros within five years, organically and through acquisitions. My role will be, well, vague, like I described it. Procurement/supplies/relationships with buyers, sellers, bankers (for eg. for acquisition funding)/liaison for parent company's family/compliance and control/HR/business development. For full disclosure, the greenfield itself is not going to be a big operation. We will mostly be testing and assembling already manufactured products. So that we can put a "Made in Spain" label instead of "Made is XYZ Developing Country". This will guarantee an automatic premium. So the scope of this job is not as large as a comparable operation in actual manufacturing. Yet I have been assured that there will be no shortage of work - my biggest concern is not having enough to do. Oh and I'll probably have to live in a village near Madrid hahaha, my Spanish is rudimentary, but I'll learn I guess. Business, supposedly, can be done knowing only English.

So, what should I do? Pack my bags and head off into the unknown nether regions of Spain? Hope that the work is great, the subsidiary does well and booms, that I stick around for 2.5 years, get my CFA or a part-time or distance degree, am picked up by a top B-school in 2012, and voila, by MBB or GS/MS/KKR after graduation? Or do I check myself before I step...stick to the more charted route...do my internship, hope for a GOOD Master's admit (since in these dark times a *decent* Master's won't get you anything), hope for a good finance job afterward, and get into a B-school after two or three years of working?

Well, advice on any and all questions would be much appreciated. Advice on the feasibility/appropriateness of the two options, particularly with respect to 1. getting into a top B-school and 2. getting into top-tier finance/consulting afterwards would be really helpful. How does the Spain option sound to you? How would that look to TOP adcoms, namely Harvard/Wharton/Stanford? Some people I know say that if I can do this Spain job for even a couple of years, I'll be writing my ticket to H/W/S...Is this in any way true? I very much doubt their credibility on top tier MBA admissions. So I am seeking your informed opinion.

I'm dying here (so to speak)...need your informed opinion!

Thanks a lot!!

[mbamission]

Hello,

Thanks for your inquiry. It’s very hard to provide career advice because any of the options that you mentioned could lead you to business school. However, if you forced me to choose, I think that an international experience at a manufacturing company would indeed be very attractive to business schools. The reason I hesitate to give you advice is that you have some major life decisions to make aside from considering what will help you get into business schools. I encourage you to make sure that you consider other questions when making this decision, like, do I want to move to Spain and work for a manufacturing plant for two years? Whatever you do, you will gain some experiences that will be beneficial to you in your business school applications.

Sincerely,

Akiba Smith-Francis
MBA Mission
646-485-8844
Website: www.mbamission.com
Blog: www.mbamission.com/blog
MBA Mission Insider’s Guides: www.mbamission.com/store.php (12 individual school titles)
Free Consultation: www.mbamission.com/consult.php
Twitter: http://twitter.com/MBAMission

[lonelyimpulseofdelight]

Thanks a lot Akiba! I appreciate your time and effort.

If I may, let me impose on you a bit more. Could you please tell me what I could do to maximize my chances for entry into these programs, assuming I take the Spain route? My GPA is weak...How do I make up for this (assuming I am not going for the Master's route)? I guess in part test scores can balance a GPA, but probably only slightly. Would a CFA count for something? Would more actuarial exams compensate for this? Or would it have to be a distance or part-time degree - I have long been interested in Columbia's Master in Applied Mathematics? But maybe even that doesn't much make up for a subpar undergraduate GPA? Or would it? As I see it, a low GPA means - 1. Intellectual inability and/or 2. Lack of effort. Thus with very high test scores and difficult/time-consuming work experience, you should theoretically be able to negate the impact of a low GPA, at least partially. What else can one do? Please advise.

Now, as far as the ECs go, like I said, I have some meaningful but no-profile ECs. They were certainly meaningful...but they weren't elected roles, more on the volunteering side. What ECs count when it comes to H/S/W? What are these guys looking for? I worry because I know so many people who were involved in ECs that made no impact on the world at large - neither on individuals/society nor on their own personal development (well, apart from getting them jobs/giving them nonsense to talk about, buzzwords to drop)...What are good roles to pursue/good organizations to be a part of?

And finally, what is a profile that's pretty much a shoe-in for H/S/W? I mean a mainstream profile, not like that dude I saw on John Stewart who'd built a windmill from scratch in his native village is some very poor African country. I mean a mainstream profile...Specifically, let's assume I have a McKinsey/Bain/BCG offer for their entry-level pre-MBA position, I do this for 2 or 3 years, I have good ECs at university (including a President role at a large student organization), but not as much after university, I have a stellar GPA from a good public university, and good test scores - Am I a shoe-in then? I see so many people from MBB in the top-tier schools...Do these companies (and maybe Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, etc.) represent a ticket to H/S/W? I am really curious to know, because I have interest from MBB as well. How would this Spain option, assuming it pans out nicely, compare to the usual Business Analyst/Associate Consultant MBB experience? If Spain works out nicely, what would my chances be at H/S/W? Or at the schools just below the big three like Columbia/Booth/Sloan etc?

Your advice and evaluation would really help me in making up my mind. Assume that I am willing to live/work in Spain in the worst of circumstances if need be, as long as I will have a fair shot at top-tier b-schools as a result of the work experience...

Your honest feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thanks a lot!

[mbamission]

Hello,

There is no such thing as a sure thing profile for top tier business schools. I cannot give you a formula for how to get in to business school.

In terms of your specific question about making up for a low undergraduate GPA, there are several things you can do. These include earning good grades in one or more highly quantitative classes, working in a highly quantitative role and earning a high score on the GMAT. You may decide to do all of these things to compensate for your college grades. However, you might not be able to get a high score on the GMAT and then decide to focus on your work experience and additional courses. I certainly do not think that you need to go so far as getting a Masters degree in order to help you get another Masters degree (the MBA).

In terms of activities outside of work, business schools are looking for evidence of a multi-dimensional person who is able to have a positive impact on the people/teams/organizations they work with. It doesn’t really matter if you volunteer with a political, religious or non-profit organization. What matters is that you can show that you have been committed to the activity and have had an impact on the organization or individuals(s) invovled. On a side note, I would advise you to pursue your true interests because you are much more likely to be successful doing what you enjoy rather than doing things just because you think they will get you into a top MBA program. Good luck in your pursuits!

Sincerely,

Akiba Smith-Francis
MBA Mission
646-485-8844
Website: www.mbamission.com
Blog: www.mbamission.com/blog
MBA Mission Insider’s Guides: www.mbamission.com/store.php (12 individual school titles)
Free Consultation: www.mbamission.com/consult.php
Twitter: http://twitter.com/MBAMission