GMAT PREP Question

[davetzulin]

Hi,

I took the GMAT PREP #2 just recently and I ended up with a 41 on verbal. And although I am perfectly happy with that score, I looked at the results and I only got 6 wrong. as a comparison, my mgmat CAT tests I was scoring about the same on verbal, sometimes lower, but getting many more wrong

I know test is adaptive, but how could 6 wrong result in a score like that? I got 2 wrong in each type, CR, RC, SC and they were pretty spread out. This worries me for my real test ( in 3 weeks) since 6 wrong is a very small margin for error. I did not notice the ones I got wrong were particularly easier either?'

also, if the highest score is 51, then clearly some of the ones I got wrong would be "worth" more than a point in the final score!

does a high verbal score hinge on literally a few questions? the only thing i can think of is a 41 equates to a 93 percentile so incremental improvements must be very tough?

in the last few weeks before my exam i've been training myself to "give up" quicker (something Ron suggests a lot in his videos), since i tend to have only 2 minutes for the last 2 questions on both sections, (i always happen to be 2-3 minutes slow) but knowing that 1-2 questions could make or break me on verbal makes me very reluctant to do that, or in other words, gives me incentive to spend an extra 30-45 seconds since every question is so crucial. not sure what to do?

[StaceyKoprince]

The "true" highest verbal score is actually 45. Anything 45 and higher is 99th percentile. So you're only 4 points below the holy grail (and 7 percentile points: 41 is 92nd percentile on the latest scale released from GMAC. :)

So, yes, it is the case that 6 wrong could get you to 92nd percentile - which is an amazing score, so that matches with getting only 6 wrong. You may also get more wrong than that and still score in the 90s. There isn't a specific # wrong that corresponds to a specific score (though there are ranges obviously - you're not going to score in the 90s, percentile-wise, if you get half the questions wrong).

In particular, the real test is going to include experimental questions that don't count toward your score. If you happen to get all of those wrong (plus some that count), you could get quite a number wrong and still get a really good score.

Short answer: don't stress about the specific # wrong. It doesn't tell you very much and it just psychs you out. :) Go learn whatever you need to learn, practice and review whatever you need to practice and review, etc. Good luck!

since i tend to have only 2 minutes for the last 2 questions on both sections, (i always happen to be 2-3 minutes slow) but knowing that 1-2 questions could make or break me on verbal makes me very reluctant to do that, or in other words, gives me incentive to spend an extra 30-45 seconds since every question is so crucial. not sure what to do?

Think it through. If you spend extra time on every question, you'll run out of time with many questions left, and then you'll get a bunch wrong... right? So that's not going to work.

In general, if you've got the "I don't know what to do, but I'm sure I would if I could just have some more time!" feeling, then you just don't know what to do, period. An extra 30 to 45 seconds isn't going to change that - we just fool ourselves into thinking it might because we're reluctant to give up. :)

An extra 30 seconds is ONLY worth it if this is your feeling: "Oh, I know exactly how to do this - it's just a longer problem than usual for some reason, so it's going to take a little more time than usual."

But if you're going to have to guess anyway, then guess sooner, not later. Be brutally honest with yourself: if, right now, you don't know what you're doing, do you really think you're going to figure it all out if you give yourself an extra 30-45 seconds?

Read these:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... to-win-it/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... anagement/

;)

[davetzulin]

Stacey,

Great advice on those links! two questions:

1.) on the time management link you sent, i'm wondering if these numbers can be biased severely for a particular person? My RC times are always between 1-2 minutes, usually less than 1.5 minutes/problem. I tracked this on all my OG problems (bear in mind that I only counted RC passages with 2-3 questions since some have 6-8)
However, for sentence correction, i hardly ever finish a problem under 2 minutes. My average is normally 2.5 minutes actually. I'm actually shocked people can do these problems in 1 min 15.. i agree though, I notice on harder problems I end up reading each answer choice and trying to eliminate like that

2.) I have 2 weeks until my test and for Quantitative. i finished OG12/13 and the Quantitative Review. I kept problem logs for everything I did i've constantly went back and done "bad" problems over and over until i mark them "not-bad". So you can say I've exhausted that material.

where I am at now: my MGAT quant scores started at 43 (2-3 months ago) and my last one was 47. my last gmat prep one was 49.

i have 3 options:
1.) go through the mgmat advanced quant book, i bought it 3 weeks ago, but never got around to doing more than the first 10 pages. truth be told I was kind of scared since the first few introductory problems were so hard i felt it might b out of scope.
2.) just find GMAT prep 700-800 level problems on forums
3.) go through an exhaustive list of 800 GMAT prep DS/PS problems I-- I would guess I've done about 100-120 of these problems from taking/re-taking the tests, but still 700 problems is still a lot to do... and plus these lists are not sorted so i may be wasting time doing easy problems

While 3-4 weeks or so ago I was confident about MATH, when manhattan gmat released the delta problems from OG12 to OG13 I did those right away and found out how tough some of the problems were, especially P.S.. It was humbling because i felt I've done a lot. Tons of Manhattan GMAT CAT tests, all the GMAT prep, all the OG stuff...and these new problems in OG 13 seemed 'brand new' almost.

[StaceyKoprince]

1) How is your performance on RC? Sometimes, yes, someone's so good at something that they can do it really quickly without sacrificing accuracy, in which case they get to spend more time on other things.

But the key is that you're not sacrificing accuracy - because that's what you're really good at, right? So don't sacrifice those just because you're going too quickly and make a careless mistake.

For SC, my guess is that you may possibly always be a bit slower on those - but you can be faster than you are right now. :)

A couple of things. Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... n-problem/

And then for those harder / longer Qs:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/03/ ... sc-problem
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/03/ ... -problem-2

Also here's your general process for all verbal Qs.
Go through the answers *twice*.
1st pass through answers: place answers into 1 of 2 categories, definitely wrong or maybe. DO NOT decide whether something is right at this stage.
2nd pass through: look only at the "maybe" answers, compare, choose one.
When you are down to two answers on verbal, look at each answer ONCE more, then pick one and move on. Do NOT go back and forth multiple times between only two answers. :)

2) 2 weeks to test, what to do about quant. Don't do the Advanced Quant book at this point. Not enough time to get out of it what you should get out of it (a new way to think about approaching and studying problems overall).

Don't just DO a bunch of problems. You're not learning much when you do problems. You learn when you're analyzing the problems and your work after the fact.

You can do SOME harder problems, but also analyze them using this general plan:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/a ... roblem.cfm

when manhattan gmat released the delta problems from OG12 to OG13 I did those right away and found out how tough some of the problems were, especially P.S

And there's your starting point. Start by analyzing those! And really work on that verbal timing - you don't want to mess up the timing on the real test and have your score drop...

[davetzulin]

really sage advice Stacey, already found something in your article I wasn't doing.

"If we spot an actual error in the original sentence, we immediately cross off answer choice A on the scratch paper. (Remember that answer A is always identical to the original sentence.) We then scan the other answers in the same location to find any that repeat the same error and cross those off, too."

Of course I think everyone does this on the obvious split problems, but it never occurred to me to do it on the complex huge problems where everything moves around.

thanks!

[StaceyKoprince]

oh, yeah, that's even MORE important on the complex "everything's changing" problems - because it gives you an "in" - something to do!

It won't be as obvious as has/has/have/have/have, but it could be something like "hmm, the original has a parallelism problem between these two parts... let me check and see whether any other answers also have a parallelism problem - even if the actual words are different."

They don't test *everything* in one problem. If there's a parallelism problem in one answer, there's a REALLY good chance that there are parallelism issues elsewhere too!

[davetzulin]

Hi Stacey!

I just finished the test and the verbal section was my saving grace. i ended up with a 750 q49 v44. much higher than I've ever gotten in practice tests!

Ironically, I spent 90% of my time the last 3 weeks on math, doing all the gmat prep problems, and i still couldn't get into the 50s... is the climb from 49-50 that much harder? Also i was so nervous during the math section I had trouble focusing until the third or fourth question. I took the advice of the instructors here and actually guessed on the second problem ( looked at the problem, it looked like it was going to take me 5 mins in my current state of nervousness, so i flat out guessed). I finished the math section with 5 minutes to spare and on top of getting what I thought were easy questions for the questinos 34-37, I was very skeptical of my math score (i've taken about 7 practice tests and I've never finished on time).


I had good luck and bad during the verbal section. In terms of good luck, you mentioned serendipity and I think I got it. The test started off with medium easy sentence correction ( my weakness), then ramped up with medium hard CR -- so it was in line with my strengths/weaknesses. I'm pretty sure I got the first 8-10 problems right. Then the test decided to get hard on me and threw me RC, my best section on the whole test (serendipity part 1). I could tell it was a harder RC, but I used my usual strategy and took as long as i needed to read the passage.. i'm certain i got all of them right. then serendipity part II came... they threw me another RC right after that one, which i could tell was one of the hardest and longest i've seen. i spent even more time on this passage -- knowing the questions would be subtle -- and was pretty certain i got either all 3 or at least 2 right. If instead they gave me difficult SC in place of the RC, i don't think i could have surpassed the threshold to earn that score. I think once I passed that threshold, the algorithm was more lenient with me even if i got stuff wrong, because after that RC passage, the questions stayed difficult, but were now back to sentence correction.

As for the bad luck... i had the urge to use the restroom at about the halfway mark. at first i shrugged it off; it's not like i never held the urge back before.. but this was different, everytime i focused, the urge pulled me out of focus. kind of like someone waving their hand in front of me every 1.5 seconds. i had a lot of trouble with the next 2-3 questions, re-reading and re-reading because i was losing concentration. so then i finally raised my hand and the lady came over. i whispered asking if i can just run out and use the restroom, she obviously said no, i had to be signed out of the computer, signed out of the room, my ID checked, and of course, repeat the whole process when i came back in. not to mention the bathroom was actually 80 ft away, not in the same office. at that point i said "forget it" and i fought through it. i kind of shifted my position to avoid the discomfort and i ended up having to deal with this handicap for the rest of the test... now the reason i brought this circumstance up is i can't help but wonder if things would be different had that not happened. If i was at a 44, it couldn't have been more than 1-2 questions between me and 45. any thoughts on that?

ultimately, i could not be happier.i never thought i would beat my practice scores, and that makes the result that much sweeter.

And a big thanks to you Stacey. Just days before the test, I read through your articles on diaphragmatic breathing, what to eat during break (too bad i drank tea also, a diuretic), and overall mental preparation -- the anxiety i was feeling would have crippled me otherwise. i remember the day before the test sitting in a meeting breathing forcing my stomach in/out! it works!

[StaceyKoprince]

That's excellent - congratulations! Wow, what a great score!

The jump from 49 to 50 on quant is 85th to 92nd percentile. Not an impossible jump, but you have much less margin for error at 92nd percentile. You're still getting questions wrong at that level, but you can't get lower-level questions wrong without likely dropping below 50. A couple of careless mistakes and...

I'm glad you were able to handle the nerves and the distraction of having the "bathroom urge." Sometimes your body just gets to you. But, yes, that's why I avoid caffeine entirely* and don't drink that much before I go in. I don't want my nerves creating problems for me!

*Note: I'm not saying everyone should avoid caffeine entirely. I rarely drink anything with caffeine, so it's easy for me and doesn't impact me negatively. If you drink coffee every day, then avoiding caffeine completely could actually be problematic. But don't have more than you normally have either - don't change the routine.

Re: 44 to 45 on verbal, at some point, yes, the difference is only 1-2 questions... but we don't know whether you were at that point. :) No way to tell.

I'm especially glad that you shared how you managed your anxiety. Many people struggle with moderate to severe anxiety, so hearing what worked for others is very helpful. Thanks for sharing.

And congratulations again! Let us know how apps go!

[davetzulin]

i did one other crucial thing for anxiety the last 3 weeks and perhaps other students may find it beneficial.

Since I was getting nervous every time I thought about the test, it started bleeding into my study time, work time, etc.. yes I thought about the test dozens of times a day. It was counter productive however you sliced it.

So the last 3 weeks I did something simple. I did not allow myself a single negative thought. ever. i did not consider a re-take, i did not consider a sub 700 score. In my mind I already succeeded and I just had to go through the motions. Although I've never been on morphine or laughing gas, from what I've heard I think that was how I was feeling. A sort of fake high in order to block out any lows.


funny thing is I learned this from Arnold Schwarzenegger (whether it is really true i'm not sure) in a documentary he starred in. Before a big bodybuilding competition his dad had died and he wouldn't even attend the funeral less any negative thoughts crept in. he said that was how champion's think. I can't argue with that!

[StaceyKoprince]

Wow, that's really interesting - I'll have to try that myself sometime! :)