General Questions on Pronuous

[sivai87]

Hello All,

I am planning to take the examination on July 27. Preparation is going fine.. I was going through the Manhattan GMAT Prep.. Had some doubts.. Thought of posting it here so as to get it clarified :)

Chapter 5 - Pronouns. Just need few clarifications. Hope you experts could help me out :) Here they go...

Pg 71, last few words on pronouns.. it is given as,

"Finally on the GMAT, do not use this or these in place of nouns. Also, do not use that or those in place of nouns (unless you modify that or those). Use it, they or them instead.

Wrong: Her products are unusual; many consider THESE unique
Right: Her products are unusual; many consider THEM unique

I can understand the example. But I could not clearly get the description. Please do help me on the same.

And one more clarification,

Pronouns, Problem Set - 13th problem.

Q: Our cat is cuter than those in the shelter.
The corrected answer in the Manhattan is "Our cat is cuter than the cats in the Shelter"

I just want to know whether the following is also fine "Our cat is cuter than those cats in the Shelter" or "Our cat is cuter than that in the Shelter"

Thanks in advance.. :)
On the way to modifiers now.... ;)

[karan13]

let me try to attempt this...

starting with the cats example

Pronouns, Problem Set - 13th problem.

Q: Our cat is cuter than those in the shelter.
The corrected answer in the Manhattan is "Our cat is cuter than the cats in the Shelter"

go to parallelism the comparison has to be between cats and a noun is preferred over a pronoun. so therefore cats replaces those.

I just want to know whether the following is also fine "Our cat is cuter than those cats in the Shelter" or "Our cat is cuter than that in the Shelter"


Im not too sure about your first query but i think it is related to tenses. hope im right and made sense.

when you use that here it refers to only one cat in the shelter and changes the meaning.int he original tet those and cats refer to plural cats

[sivai87]

Let me put it in the other way...

Is "Our cat is cuter than those cats in the Shelter" and "Our cat is cuter than that in the Shelter" - Grammatically correct??

And also, is "Our cat is cuter than the cats in the Shelter" considered a better version than "Our cat is cuter than those cats in the Shelter" or "Our cat is cuter than that in the Shelter"? If yes, why??

Thanks in advance...

[karan13]

im no expert at this but what i would say is that u have to go with what is more preferred in gmat land it is not about wrong or rite but sometimes aboutmost prefered. Let me try this i cud be wrong.

Is "Our cat is cuter than those cats in the Shelter" and "Our cat is cuter than that in the Shelter" - Grammatically correct??

gramatically this is correct but remember 'that' is singular so in your second sentence you are comparing one to one cat which chnages the meaning and is wrong.Also what is preferred is if you can leave the pronous out. noun is preferred but there is nothng wrong with the first sentense above. but is you have a choice you would choose a one in which noun is present as pronouns tend to be ambigous.(read pronoun ambiguity)

And also, is "Our cat is cuter than the cats in the Shelter" considered a better version than "Our cat is cuter than those cats in the Shelter" or "Our cat is cuter than that in the Shelter"? If yes, why??

yes it a better version cos 'those' must go back to a noun which is cats. And cats is already mentioned(there is no purppose of 'those hence useless) in the second one so for me is definitely wrong compared to the the first.

[sivai87]

Hello Karan,

Thanks for ur explanation.... got a better picture now...

Any other comments???
And pls pour your comments for the first clarification posted.. Thanks in advance :)

[karan13]

hey... im just taking a shot here....

Wrong: Her products are unusual; many consider THESE unique
Right: Her products are unusual; many consider THEM unique

this and these is very tense specific... they are used for present tense only.... since in the eh above there is no tense involved it is wrong... n also once you read the eg you know it makes sense....

my advise to you is that once you start doing questions (and read explainations) you will realise what they mean.. n believe me you will see tonnes of 'that , it , those' n they will drive you mad.... but the point is you can not say that they are always wrong... just forget about a few lines written and learn from questions once you have read the rules broadly....

hope it helps...

[messi10]

Hi guys,

I am just going to add and clarify a few things.

Q: Our cat is cuter than those in the shelter.
The corrected answer in the Manhattan is "Our cat is cuter than the cats in the Shelter"

First of all, the reason "Our cat is cuter than those in the shelter" is incorrect because of a pronoun error. "those" is a plural pronoun and needs a plural antecedent, which in this case should be "cats". But "cats" is not present anywhere in the sentence. The correct way to compare one cat to multiple cats is given as the answer in the book: "Our cat is cuter than the cats in the shelter".

"Our cat is cuter than that in the Shelter"

I think that this is OK, although I am not 100% certain. According to the book, you can use "that" in place of a noun as long as the noun is modified and that seems to be the case in this sentence. As Karan points out, you are comparing one cat to another.

I just want to know whether the following is also fine "Our cat is cuter than those cats in the Shelter"

In the sentence above, it is important to note that "those" is now functioning as an adjective modifying "cats". It is grammatically correct but not sure if this is a GMAT type of sentence. The ones that I have seen in the book always seem to have a prior reference to the noun being modified.
e.g. - New nano-papers incorporate fibres that give these materials strength
Can one of the instructors please clarify? Thanks

Wrong: Her products are unusual; many consider THESE unique
Right: Her products are unusual; many consider THEM unique

Finally, this one as the book says seems to be a rule specific to GMAT. "this" and "these" should not be used in place of nouns. I do not know the reason why, but I can only take a very wild guess that they make poor pronouns in written english. They seem more apt in a conversation or spoken english. When two people are having a conversation and one says "This room is mine". It makes sense because either that person is pointing to that room or if he is standing inside the room so the sentence makes sense to other person listening to him. This is a very far fetched theory, please do not take this as the reason.

Hope this helps

Regards

Sunil

[jnelson0612]

Great discussion! Please see my comments in blue.

Hi guys,

I am just going to add and clarify a few things.

Q: Our cat is cuter than those in the shelter.
The corrected answer in the Manhattan is "Our cat is cuter than the cats in the Shelter"

First of all, the reason "Our cat is cuter than those in the shelter" is incorrect because of a pronoun error. "those" is a plural pronoun and needs a plural antecedent, which in this case should be "cats". But "cats" is not present anywhere in the sentence. The correct way to compare one cat to multiple cats is given as the answer in the book: "Our cat is cuter than the cats in the shelter".
Correct!

"Our cat is cuter than that in the Shelter"

I think that this is OK, although I am not 100% certain. According to the book, you can use "that" in place of a noun as long as the noun is modified and that seems to be the case in this sentence. As Karan points out, you are comparing one cat to another.
I'm struggling with this. I don't think "that" is a proper referent for a living being. It's okay to say "my hair is longer than that of my sister" but I don't think "that" can refer to a person or animal.

I just want to know whether the following is also fine "Our cat is cuter than those cats in the Shelter"

In the sentence above, it is important to note that "those" is now functioning as an adjective modifying "cats". It is grammatically correct but not sure if this is a GMAT type of sentence. The ones that I have seen in the book always seem to have a prior reference to the noun being modified.
e.g. - New nano-papers incorporate fibres that give these materials strength
Can one of the instructors please clarify? Thanks
We don't need "those". Just say "Our cat is cuter than the cats in the Shelter."

Wrong: Her products are unusual; many consider THESE unique
Right: Her products are unusual; many consider THEM unique

Finally, this one as the book says seems to be a rule specific to GMAT. "this" and "these" should not be used in place of nouns. I do not know the reason why, but I can only take a very wild guess that they make poor pronouns in written english. They seem more apt in a conversation or spoken english. When two people are having a conversation and one says "This room is mine". It makes sense because either that person is pointing to that room or if he is standing inside the room so the sentence makes sense to other person listening to him. This is a very far fetched theory, please do not take this as the reason.

Hope this helps

Regards

Sunil

I recently addressed this here: them-vs-these-in-sc-t12895.html

[messi10]

Hi Jamie,

Thanks for the clarifications and also for the comments on the other posts. :)

Regards

Sunil

[jnelson0612]

My pleasure Sunil! :-)

[sivai87]

thank you all for giving a great explanation. :)

[jnelson0612]

:-) Glad to hear it!