Everyone who has graduated from TopNotch High School

[gmatwork]

Hi,
Any tips on dealing with this specific type (one that has such confusing answer choices), efficiently under time pressure, other than POE and guessing....please? Thanks.

[tim]

practice! :) i'd say one of the primary things you should do is make sure to review such questions thoroughly after you've gone through the problem and make sure you eliminate any confusion about the answer choices. also, be sure you understand completely why each wrong answer choice is wrong. the more you take the time to do this for each verbal problem during your review phase, the better you should get at understanding and identifying incorrect answer choices under time pressure..

[sophia.lin12345]

Was a toss-up between C and D for me.

So....D is incorrect because you can't infer from the passage who actually applied to the Ivy League schools, if at all. So the main point of the question is not the chance that students will get accepted by an Ivy League school, but the kind of student that the Ivy League school typically accepts from TopNotch High School. Is that right?

[jnelson0612]

Was a toss-up between C and D for me.

So....D is incorrect because you can't infer from the passage who actually applied to the Ivy League schools, if at all. So the main point of the question is not the chance that students will get accepted by an Ivy League school, but the kind of student that the Ivy League school typically accepts from TopNotch High School. Is that right?

Here's why D is incorrect:
" . . . even if it is unlikely, it is possible that none of the TopNotch graduates had IQ of over 150, and, of the remaining graduates who applied to the Ivy League, none were accepted to an Ivy League university. This conclusion is thereby not valid."

Remember, on a draw a conclusion question, the answer that you choose HAS to be true. Ask yourself, does D HAVE to be true? Do I have to have at least one Top Notch student accepted to an Ivy League university? Well, no. I could have the scenario described above--no Top Notch students with IQs above 150 (this would guarantee acceptance), and of those who apply none get in. This one does not HAVE to be true.

[sahilmalhotra01]

Hi,

Though i marked the correct option choice C, but i would like to discuss my reasoning for eliminating option choice A and option choice E.

Argument states that everyone with IQ over 150 who apply to one or more Ivy League universities are accepted by at least one of them.

This implies that minimum IQ for an assured admission is greater than 150 or greater than equal to 151.

Since Option choice A and E state that IQ of a student is 150, that doesn't necessarily implies an assured admission.

Please clarify if my reasoning for eliminating option choice A and E is correct.

Thanks

[cgentry]

Hi,

Though i marked the correct option choice C, but i would like to discuss my reasoning for eliminating option choice A and option choice E.

Argument states that everyone with IQ over 150 who apply to one or more Ivy League universities are accepted by at least one of them.

This implies that minimum IQ for an assured admission is greater than 150 or greater than equal to 151.

Since Option choice A and E state that IQ of a student is 150, that doesn't necessarily implies an assured admission.

Please clarify if my reasoning for eliminating option choice A and E is correct.

Thanks

In your own analysis, there are two conditions to guarantee acceptance. It's not just everyone with that IQ... what other condition must be met in order for assured acceptance? That's your key to why answer A is wrong.

As for option E, the paragraph deals with guaranteed "acceptance". But E brings in a concept that, although related, is not the same: attendance. And nothing in the paragraph deals with attendance!

[ajaym8]

Down to B and C, I chose B.

C has a very weak statement

Regards,
DCE

the "very weak statement" in choice (c) makes that choice a BETTER candidate for the correct answer. in particular, the "weaker" the statement, the more likely it is to be completely supported by the evidence in the passage!
strong statements, such as "could not have been..." in choice (b), are difficult (albeit not impossible) to support, and should be regarded with suspicion.

the problem with choice (b) is that we are only given information about the graduates of TNHS. this leaves open the possibility that TNHS has former students with iq's below 120 who failed to graduate; that possibility is enough to kill choice (b), because you aren't able to support the absolute nature of the phrase "could not have been".

Ron,
I couldn't even think of this possibility( your explanation, in bold). How do I develop the ability to think like that ?!
I shortlisted options B,C & E but marked B because I thought it is directly supported by the stimulus.
I put both C & E in the "possible" category. So to answer a "must be true" stem, I chose B. Now I understand that the part you highlighted here didn't even surface in my mind.
Thanks for all the help,

[RonPurewal]

choice B uses the word "graduate" AND the phrase "to have been a student".

these kinds of problems -- in which you have to prove one of the answer choices -- are VERY precise in the way they use words. when these kinds of problems use different SPECIFIC terms, they're almost always talking about different things.

__

[RonPurewal]

also, MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY --

when you have to "draw a conclusion" in CR, you will always, always, ALWAYS have to COMBINE AT LEAST TWO STATEMENTS to prove your answer.

choice B doesn't do this at all... it LOOKS like something you can just get from the first sentence ALONE (= the part about graduates of TN high school).
on these kinds of CR problems, ANY answer choice that LOOKS like a consequence of JUST ONE SENTENCE from the passage is going to be WRONG.

[Brandong984]

I'm sorry but I still do not see how D is incorrect. I agree that nothing is invalid about point C. I think this is a poorly worded question.

How can MOST of TNHS students who apply to schools get into Ivy league schools if none of them get in (i.e. Not even at least one gets in). When clarifying, please focus on choice d, not choice c as I understand c.

[UjaswinJ407]

Hi Ron,

I am still unconvinced with the reason you gave for choosing C as the right answer, because the reasoning to eliminate C can be that all the students of Top Notch School might have an IQ of over 130.(This assumption does not contradict any of the premises mentioned in the argument)

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

It's important to evaluate the answers using the information given, and not add our own assumptions to the mix. Sure, it's possible that no-one at Top Notch High School has an IQ over 130 (they all could have IQs between 120 and 130). It's also possible that no-one from Top Notch went to an Ivy League school. However, on the information given, a student from TNHS could have an IQ over 130 and could have gone to an Ivy League school, therefore the conditions in answer C are possible.

I don't see why it's a problem if everyone at TNHS has an IQ over 130 as you suggest. Sure, that's another example of something that's possible (but not certain).