"Estimated to be" versus "estimated at..."

[nehag84]

In OG 12, Q 27 of SC, it says that the correct idiom is "estimated to be".

For eg, "The fossils of x are estimated to be y years old...."

The guide further says that "estimated at" should be used only when the author is trying is indicate a location at which the estimation was made.

But I came across a Q (given below) in GMAT Prep in which "estimated at" is used in the non-underlined portion and it is not specifying a location....

"With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Farenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water though to be frozen from top to bottom."

So suppose such a Q comes when I am taking the actual GMAT, which one should I go with...(I guess I 'll go with "estimated to be" because it's in d underlined portion but need to be sure...)


Thanks,
NG

[RonPurewal]

In OG 12, Q 27 of SC, it says that the correct idiom is "estimated to be".

For eg, "The fossils of x are estimated to be y years old...."

The guide further says that "estimated at" should be used only when the author is trying is indicate a location at which the estimation was made.

But I came across a Q (given below) in GMAT Prep in which "estimated at" is used in the non-underlined portion and it is not specifying a location....

"With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Farenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water though to be frozen from top to bottom."

So suppose such a Q comes when I am taking the actual GMAT, which one should I go with...(I guess I 'll go with "estimated to be" because it's in d underlined portion but need to be sure...)


Thanks,
NG

wow. good find.

um... i guess they just fell asleep on that one.

[nonameee]

I would very much appreciate if you could comment on this opinion below. Thank you.

After teaching a few foreign language students, I am convinced that this is a question where it makes sense to point out that the official guide has very little to do with actual American English. And can be very inconsistent.

Looking at the sentence, we need an answer choice that is parallel around the conjunction and.

So unearthed in needs to be parallel to estimated __ followed by the correct answer choice. Ideally the correct answer choice would have a preposition after estimated.

GMAC's answer estimated to be uses an infinitive verb instead of a preposition preventing this structure from being perfectly parallel.

In the official explanation the author of the answer explains that estimated at could only be used if something was estimated at a location. For example in the sentence, John estimated the impact of the earthquake at the epicenter.

While I agree with GMAC that estimated at could be used in this form. I disagree with the point of view that this is the only correct use of it.

Estimated at is an idiom in use in professional capacity throughout the United States. Someone pointed out that an actual GMAT question uses estimated at in the portion of the sentence that is not underlined: http://www.beatthegmat.com/sc-with-surf ... 43734.html

Further HBR articles frequently contain the idiom estimated at. One example, a top result in google, can be found here: http://books.google.com/books?id=2QOlPM ... at&f=false

Given the lack of parallelism in this answer and the fact that the idiom estimated at is in common usage, I think it is important to keep in mind that GMAC is not always correct outside of GMAT world.

The test works by comparing students answer to those of people who have advanced degrees (typically master's degrees) in the subject that is being tested, who work as item writers in the same industry. If those people choose "estimated to be" over "estimated at" then that become the "correct" answer.

The problem is that what is perceived as an American idiom "estimated to be" may be an idiom that only in colloquial use within the test construction industry. Just as other professions have their own jargon, so to does the test construction industry.

What it boils down to is this, sometimes GMAC is wrong. For a learner of English as a foreign language, they really have to accept that it may not be possible to even understand all GMAT questions after reading the explanations because the explanations are not necessarily written by someone who would have the same expertise as a writer of a dictionary.

In these cases, it is best to just accept that this is an approximate exam, not a perfect exam, and to move on.

[RonPurewal]

that's a lot of words.

here's what is actually going on here:

* "at" is a preposition.
* prepositions must be followed by nouns.
* "xxx number of years old" is not a noun.
so, wrong.

in the other example -- "temperatures estimated at xxxx degrees fahrenheit" -- there's no problem, because "xxxx degrees fahrenheit" is a noun.

i don't think anything else is happening here.
the OG explanations are wrong fairly regularly (though not in most cases); this is one of those times.

[nonameee]

Great, thank you.

[RonPurewal]

you're welcome.

[souvik1225]

* "at" is a preposition.
* prepositions must be followed by nouns.
* "xxx number of years old" is not a noun.
so, wrong.

in the other example -- "temperatures estimated at xxxx degrees fahrenheit" -- there's no problem, because "xxxx degrees fahrenheit" is a noun.

i don't think anything else is happening here.
the OG explanations are wrong fairly regularly (though not in most cases); this is one of those times.

In OG 13 Q140 (not typing the question)
how come dated to be 347 billion years old is wrong but dated at 347 billion years is correct?
Am i thinking in the wrong direction?

[thanghnvn]

a question at the end of og 12 says ok to " dated at" not " dated to be" .

but a question in og 10 agree to " dated at" . Maybe gmat change the rule.

yes, I do not understand what gmat agree, " dated to be" or "dated at" .

gmat do not declare any grammar rule. gmat uses the explanation in the og books to make the rules.

[tim]

souvik, i guess the GMAT just wants us to use "dated at" even though it wants "estimated to be". just one of those things to memorize..

thanghnvn, you mention examples in OG12 *and* OG10 that both agree 100% with the example we have from OG13, but then you ponder whether the GMAT has changed the rules and question what the actual rule is. sounds like there's no confusion on this point, so i'm not sure what your point was..

[thanghnvn]

sory.
it seems that one question in og10 considers "dated to be " is correct and one question in og12 considers "dated at" to be correct. So, I think gmat change its rule.

which is correct?
"the fossil is dated at 3000 year old" or
" the fossil is dated to be 3000 year old"

[tim]

your question has been answered extensively in this thread; please read it. as for the discrepancy you claim between OG10 and OG12 problems, you are going to have to provide problem numbers if you want us to look into the issue further..

[thanghnvn]

the problem is not solved.

in Q 27, og 12, gmat said that "estimated at" is wrong and "estimated to be" is right.

in Q 140, og 12, gmat said that " estimated to be" is wrong and " estimated at" is wrong.

in both questions, the use of "estimated" is similar.

pls, explain, thank you

[tim]

140 does not use the word "estimated"..

[thanghnvn]

I am sorry.

"estimated to be"
and
" dated at"

are correct idioms.

[tim]

as far as we know..