Building on civilizations that preceded them in coastal Peru

[cgoyal.gmat]

Thanks Varun. I just read the Chapter 11 of MGMAT SC guide and it talks about this complex topic. I guess I'll have to dig deeper to understand and remember what are 'simple gerunds', ' complex gerunds' and 'action nouns'. Is there an easy way to distinguish these?

Regards.

[messi10]

Hey,

If the can take everything from the book, then search for these on google. There are some good sites that will explain the concept well. Once you understand the concept, you will be able to differentiate between them most of the time. Obviously, its not easy to be perfect at it. But from a GMAT point of view, its very achievable

Regards

Sunil

[ronaldramlan]

Hi, instructors,

I have some questions about B.

Can you explain why we should use "based" in B, not "basing"? I think "based....."clause in B is a participle(and it has a COMMA), which should modify the previous whole clause. Thus, using Past Participle sounds illogical. Is "basing" better?

whoa, no.

past participles function as adjectives; they ALWAYS modify nouns. it's actually impossible for a past participle to modify a whole clause.

you're thinking of the rule for "clause + , + -ING", which doesn't extend to past participles.

Hi Ron,
I find this problem interesting. While it is understandable that "based on" would serve as a noun modifier or an adjective, what would "based on" refer to in this problem? Society? If so, the comma separating the "society" and "based on" is completely unnecessary, if not confusing, right?

[RonPurewal]

Hi Ron,
I find this problem interesting. While it is understandable that "based on" would serve as a noun modifier or an adjective, what would "based on" refer to in this problem? Society?

yes.

If so, the comma separating the "society" and "based on" is completely unnecessary, if not confusing, right?

"unnecessary" is not the same thing as "wrong".

as far as "confusing" -- i don't think so; i'm a professional editor, and i find the sentence much more readable with the comma than without it.
in any case, the presence or absence of punctuation is not tested on the gmat, so this is a non-issue.

[pras1387]

Hey Ron,

Please explain the difference if a sentence has structure
...........noun+comma+past participle modifier

and

..........noun+no comma+past participle modifier

X developed a DESIGN based on the available data.

X developed a DESIGN, based on the geographical conditions of the area.

I have tried to put through examples. I wanna clarify what exactly does the bold part modify and how that affects the meaning of the sentence.

Thanx

[agarwalmanoj2000]

Hey Ron,

Please explain the difference if a sentence has structure
...........noun+comma+past participle modifier

and

..........noun+no comma+past participle modifier

X developed a DESIGN based on the available data.

X developed a DESIGN, based on the geographical conditions of the area.

I have tried to put through examples. I wanna clarify what exactly does the bold part modify and how that affects the meaning of the sentence.

Thanx

My understanding is -ed modifier are noun modifier and they always modify preceding noun or noun phrase irrespective of the comma, so in your examples above DESIGN is modified by the -ed modifier.

[tim]

actually, in your example, without a comma the -ED word will modify the previous noun, and with a comma the -ED will be an adverbial modifier modifying the earlier verb..

[zhongshanlh]

actually, in your example, without a comma the -ED word will modify the previous noun, and with a comma the -ED will be an adverbial modifier modifying the earlier verb..

but i remember that v-ed could never be an adverbial modifier...at least in the GMAT test...is that true?

[tim]

where did you read that?

[vjcongmt]

Building on civilizations that preceded them in coastal Peru, the Mochica developed their own elaborate society, based on cultivating such crops like corn and beans, the harvesting of fish and shellfish, and exploiting other wild and domestic resources.

a) based on cultivating such crops like corn and beans, the harvesting of fish and shellfish, and exploiting

b) based on the cultivation of such crops as corn and beans, the harvesting of fish and seafood, and the exploitation of

c) and basing it on the cultivation of crops like corn and beans, harvesting fish and seafood, and the exploiting of

d) and they based it on their cultivation of crops such as corn and beans, the harvest of fish and seafood, and exploiting

e) and they based it on their cultivating such crops like corn and beans, their harvest of fish and shellfish, and they exploited

Folks,

One clarification.

The OG-12, gives the following explanation why option 'c' is wrong...

And biasing it on... must come before the main verb in order to make this version a complete sentence.

So the main sentence is "The Mochica developed their own elaborate society". So if we place option 'c' before 'developed', then it seems to modify The Mochica but actually it is expected to qualify 'society'. Can someone please explain this.

[tim]

they don't mean *immediately* before the verb. in this case you'd want to move that clause to the spot just after the first comma..

[kiranck007]

Hi,

I have one question related to past participle as a noun modifier. I expect "based" to modify "The Mochica " instead of "society" in this example. Am I wrong ? What is the rule for past participles as a noun modifier. I understand as mentioned above they cannot modify the entire clause.

[RonPurewal]

Hi,

I have one question related to past participle as a noun modifier. I expect "based" to modify "The Mochica " instead of "society" in this example. Am I wrong ?

If you think about the meaning of the sentence, it's clear that it modifies "society". So, yes, you are wrong.

In general, the principle for anything that modifies nouns is, "Put it as close to the noun as possible".
In the case of noun-modifiers that come after commas, that generally means modifying either (a) the nearest available noun or (b) the nearest available noun+short modifier (e.g., noun+prep phrase).

In the problem at hand, this is a non-issue anyway, since the use of "and" is inappropriate (these are not 2 different things).

[kiranck007]

Hi,

I have one question related to past participle as a noun modifier. I expect "based" to modify "The Mochica " instead of "society" in this example. Am I wrong ?

If you think about the meaning of the sentence, it's clear that it modifies "society". So, yes, you are wrong.

In general, the principle for anything that modifies nouns is, "Put it as close to the noun as possible".
In the case of noun-modifiers that come after commas, that generally means modifying either (a) the nearest available noun or (b) the nearest available noun+short modifier (e.g., noun+prep phrase).

In the problem at hand, this is a non-issue anyway, since the use of "and" is inappropriate (these are not 2 different things).

Thanks Ron. I understand that the modifier has to be close to the noun it modifies. Also, I think you also intended to convey from your first sentence that to ascertain a statement as grammatically correct, we also have to see whether the modifier is intended to modify the nearest noun or the one that is far. So, a sentence can be grammatically correct even if the modifier which comes after a comma meaningfully modifies the subject of the preceding sentence , even though, the subject ,noun, is far off. Please correct me I am wrong.

[jlucero]

If you think about the meaning of the sentence, it's clear that it modifies "society". So, yes, you are wrong.

In general, the principle for anything that modifies nouns is, "Put it as close to the noun as possible".
In the case of noun-modifiers that come after commas, that generally means modifying either (a) the nearest available noun or (b) the nearest available noun+short modifier (e.g., noun+prep phrase).

In the problem at hand, this is a non-issue anyway, since the use of "and" is inappropriate (these are not 2 different things).

Thanks Ron. I understand that the modifier has to be close to the noun it modifies. Also, I think you also intended to convey from your first sentence that to ascertain a statement as grammatically correct, we also have to see whether the modifier is intended to modify the nearest noun or the one that is far. So, a sentence can be grammatically correct even if the modifier which comes after a comma meaningfully modifies the subject of the preceding sentence , even though, the subject ,noun, is far off. Please correct me I am wrong.

I don't think that's Ron's point here. He was looking at the sentence and trying to see whether the modifier should be talking about the Mochica or the society in order to see whether the modifier was in the correct place. Ron's point is that it's always best to place noun modifiers as near to the noun that it is supposed to modify as you possibly can. If the sentence intended to refer to the Mochica, the modifier should be moved, not that we should try to reason our way into thinking it should refer to something further away.