Besides adding complementary flavors (they VS these)

[ZHUOC614]

Besides adding complementary flavors to many foods, hot sauces stimulate the release of endorphins in the brain, just as exercise does, and these have a pain-relieving effect like morphine's.
(A) hot sauces stimulate the release of endorphins in the brain, just as exercise does, and these have a pain-relieving effect like morphine's
(B) hot sauces stimulate the release of endorphins in the brain, like exercise, and they have a pain-relieving effect that is like morphine
(C) hot sauces and exercise both stimulate the release of endorphins in the brain, and they have a pain-relieving effect like morphine
(D) the release of endorphins in the brain is stimulated both by hot sauces and exercise, and they have a pain-relieving effect like morphine's
(E) the release of endorphins in the brain is stimulated by hot sauces, just as with exercise, and these have a pain-relieving effect like that of morphine

source:GMAT prep
hello Ron,
I know "these" or "this" can not used as it stands, they must be used as an adjective followed by a noun. But the OA is A.



Are these sentences exceptions to the "these" rule? Why can they be used without a noun?

Besides, why we can not use "they" in this question?


Thanks in a lot!

[tim]

Where did you encounter the "rule" that "these" cannot be used as a stand-alone pronoun?

[RonPurewal]

I think I may have written that. I know I've written that about "this", which, in good formal English, shouldn't be a stand-alone pronoun. (When authors use "this" as a pronoun, the purpose is usually to avoid having to use modifiers more skillfully.)

As usual, though, "strange" constructions on the GMAT are pretty much always distractions from easier things.
The same is true here. Each of b, c, d, e has at least one major error of a frequently tested type.
I.e.,
B and C have nonsense comparisons
C, D, E have nonsense initial modifiers
D, E have non-parallelism
These are all VERY major topics. The other stuff is distractions.

[tim]

I do agree with Ron about "this", in that I don't think either of us has ever seen a stand-alone "this" on the GMAT (i.e. without a noun behind it). I have however seen examples of "these" and "those" being used by themselves.

[aflaamM589]

Besides adding complementary flavors to many foods, hot sauces stimulate the release of endorphins in the brain, just as exercise does, and these have a pain-relieving effect like morphine's.
(A) hot sauces stimulate the release of endorphins in the brain, just as exercise does, and these have a pain-relieving effect like morphine's
(B) hot sauces stimulate the release of endorphins in the brain, like exercise, and they have a pain-relieving effect that is like morphine

B)' hot sauces stimulate the release of endorphins in the brain, like exercise, and they have a pain-relieving effect that is like morphine's
Ron,
Is this modified version also correct?
OR
exercise likened to sauce is an error?
Best

[RonPurewal]

please stick to the answer choices actually provided in the problem. thanks.

[LOW486]

sorry to bump this old thread...

In my opinion, the following fisrt sentence is right, and the sencond is wrong:
Like morphine, endorphins have a pain-relieving effect.------correct
Like morphine's, endorphins have a pain-relieving effect.-------wrong

so, why the construction "...like morphine's" in choice A works ?

is it an exception?

Ron, pls help me！

[RonPurewal]

you're citing examples of a completely different construction.

modifiers that immediately follow something -- without a comma -- are totally different from modifiers that are separated by commas (and that appear in a different location!).
note that this same distinction holds true for "__ing" modifiers, too. ("__ing" modifiers WITHOUT commas, in general, modify nouns that precede them. "__ing" modifiers WITH commas, on the other hand, exist very specifically NOT to modify nouns, but rather to modify actions that precede them.)

...so, those examples are not relevant here at all.

[LOW486]

OK.
I still have two question in choice A:
(1)Is "...like morphine's" an ellipsis of "...like morphine's effect" ?

(2)could you help me figure out the difference between "like" and "such as"?
I think we should use "such as" in A.(I am not doubt the official answer, I just cannot understand why "like" is used in here)

pls help!

[RonPurewal]

(1)Is "...like morphine's" an ellipsis of "...like morphine's effect" ?

i don't know what an "ellipsis" is.
but, in this problem, you just need to decide among the following:
like morphine
like morphine's
like that of morphine

in this context, nothing is actually like morphine itself, so, the first of these comparisons is nonsense.
the second and third are both valid ("morphine's" = morphine's pain-relieving effect; "that of morphine" = the pain-relieving effect of morphine). you don't have to decide between these, since choice E clearly lacks parallelism.

[RonPurewal]

(2)could you help me figure out the difference between "like" and "such as"?
I think we should use "such as" in A.(I am not doubt the official answer, I just cannot understand why "like" is used in here)

it's always fun when someone says "i'm not trying to say the official answer is wrong"... and follows up immediately with why she/he thinks the official answer is wrong.
•_________•

__

in any case:

• the official answer is not wrong.

• if you "invent" another version of the sentence, YOUR VERSION WILL NOT BE BETTER THAN THE OFFICIAL ANSWER. i promise you... this will never, ever happen.

• "such as" does not appear anywhere in this problem or its answer choices... so, i'm not sure why you're considering it.
DO NOT try to make up your own answer choices for official problems!

• ...and besides, this sentence would become nonsense if you tried to write it with "such as" instead of "like".
this sentence is describing one effect that's LIKE another effect.