Altough the Argentine Ant...

[Guest]

Although the Argentine ant is neither poisonous nor predatory, individual colonies cooperate in a super-colony so large that its collective appetite can become a competitive threat to bird, lizard, and other insect populations.
a) individual colonies cooperate in a super-colony so large that its collective appetite can become a competitive
b) individual colonies cooperate in a super-colony of such size, its collective appetite can become a competing
c) individual colonies cooperate in a super-colony so large as to cause its collective appetite to become a competitive
d) such is the size of the cooperative super-colony comprising individual colonies, its collective appetite can become a competing
e) there is so much size to the individual colonies’ cooperative super-colony that its collective appetite can become a competitive


I can understand why A is correct but why is C wrong... I thought C uses a proper idiom form So X as to Y...

Please explain....

[rfernandez]

C is much too wordy. A achieves the same result more efficiently.

Rey

[DCE]

Well, option C and A differ by just one word in count of words

Is it not because of the change in the meaning in option C ?

According to me, Option A shows uncertainity and option C removes 'can', therefore slightly changing the original meaning.

Now for my query: Is there anything wrong with option C besides the above mentioned?

thanks,
DCE

[RonPurewal]

Well, option C and A differ by just one word in count of words

Is it not because of the change in the meaning in option C ?

According to me, Option A shows uncertainity and option C removes 'can', therefore slightly changing the original meaning.

Now for my query: Is there anything wrong with option C besides the above mentioned?

thanks,
DCE

yeah, i'm with dce on this one: the meaning of (c) isn't true to the original meaning.
* first, the original sentence doesn't explicitly invoke a causal relationship, whereas (c) does ('so large as to cause...')
* second, and more importantly, (c) expresses a certainty that simply isn't there in the original. the original expresses only the possibility thet the collective appetite can do blah blah blah (note the word can), while (c) allows no room for doubt: the supercolony is so large that the appetite IS a threat. fact!
these 2 changes of meaning are unacceptable, so (a) wins. i don't agree that (c) is wordy.

[netcaesar]

The official answer says that there is a difference in meaning between "competitive" and "competing".

Could you explain what is the difference? I do not understand it.

Thanks.

[Ves]

Can you please explain when do we use "so X that Y" and "so X as to Y". I already got several wrong answers to questions because I didn't choose the right phrase from the two.

Thanks!

[JonathanSchneider]

As we note in our SC guidebook, the GMAC seems to have changed it mind on this issue. The 10th edition uses the idiom "so ___ as to" in a correct choice, but the 11th edition says that this idiom is wrong. While I don't see anything inherently wrong with this idiom, I would certainly be wary of it. The GMAT tends to prefer constructions with the word "that," and this is one such case.

On a more general note, when you say "so ___ that ___ " you are setting up a new clause after the "that." This allows you to use a new subject. For example, you can say: "The trees are so healthy that the air around them is very clean." You cannot say the same with the "so ____ as to" construction, because the "to" leads to an infinitive, rather than a new clause. As a result, the infinitive must connect back to the same subject as before. This might not make C wrong here, but it perhaps does make it a bit more awkward, in that the term "super-colony" was never a subject in the first place, and so it might be a bit strange to connect an infinitive to it. C is wrong for other reasons, of course, as explained above.

As to "competitive" versus "competing," I personally wouldn't make my decision based on this, and fortunately we don't have to, but "competitive" more correctly modifies the word "threat," because this describes the type of threat, whereas "competing" would seem to indicate that the threat itself is competing, which is not as clear/sensible, because it is the colony that is competing, not the fact that the colony is a threat.

[t_n28]

I am having trouble identifying whether a sentence is a modifier; in the previous sentence, for example, "Although the Argentine ant is neither poisonous nor predatory, individual colonies" I thought that the first phrase "Although the Argentine ant is neither poisonous nor predatory," should be followed by the subject "it" after the comma or anything that would refer to "Argentine ant" but the sentence was followed by individual colonies which made me think that it is incorrect. Similarly, I thought that the following construction was incorrect:
"Long before it was fashionable to be an expatriate, Josephine Baker made Paris her home "
my logic here was that the first sentence modifies something, but then it was followed by "Josephine Baker". I thought that the sentence is incorrect (but it's an OG answer to an SC)

Third example
As the cost of wireless service has steadily dropped over the last year and as mobile phones have become increasingly common, many people are finding that they can avoid toll charges on their home phones

In this sentence, I also thought that the first part "As the cost of wireless service has.....common" modifies many people

I can see that my logic is following the same pattern and that I am doing the same mistake over and over again. Would you please help me understand what it is that I am doing wrong? what are modifying phrases or sentences and how can I tell when a phrase is a modifier? I have searched the internet and could not find any conclusive answers.
Thanks in advance!!!

[tim]

These phrases are ALL modifiers. Your mistake is in assuming every modifier has to modify a noun. Don't throw out a modifier just because it shows up next to a noun it doesn't modify. If you look closely at the examples you posted, you'll see that all of them work fine as adverbial modifiers. You're off to a good start in identifying some of the things that these phrases are not modifying; now i challenge you to figure out exactly what each phrase is actually modifying. Hint: see if you can figure out what question it answers..

[chitrangada.maitra]

Jonathan,

Did you mean "its collective appetite can become a competing threat..." is a grammatically incorrect phrase?

Please let me know,
Thanks

[tim]

No. Read Jonathan’s post. He seems to have gone FAR out of his way to make it clear that he was not calling it grammatically incorrect..

[ivy]

These phrases are ALL modifiers. Your mistake is in assuming every modifier has to modify a noun. Don't throw out a modifier just because it shows up next to a noun it doesn't modify. If you look closely at the examples you posted, you'll see that all of them work fine as adverbial modifiers. You're off to a good start in identifying some of the things that these phrases are not modifying; now i challenge you to figure out exactly what each phrase is actually modifying. Hint: see if you can figure out what question it answers..

"Although the Argentine ant is neither poisonous nor predatory, individual colonies cooperate in a super-colony so large that its collective appetite can become a competitive threat to bird, lizard, and other insect populations."
Adverbial modifier 'Although the Argentine ant is neither poisonous nor predatory' modifies verb 'can become' of main clause.

"Long before it was fashionable to be an expatriate, Josephine Baker made Paris her home"
Modifier 'Long before it was fashionable to be an expatriate' modifies verb 'made' of main clause.

"As the cost of wireless service has steadily dropped over the last year and as mobile phones have become increasingly common, many people are finding that they can avoid toll charges on their home phones."
Adverbial modifier 'As the cost of wireless service has steadily dropped over the last year and as mobile phones have become increasingly common' modifies verb 'are finding' of main clause.

Am I going right?

Thanks,
ivy

[tim]

looks good to me!

[joey_jamal]

B - individual colonies cooperate in a super-colony of such size, its collective appetite can become a competing

is "its collective appetite can become a competing" here that special type of modifier (absolute modifier) that doesnt have to be touching the noun it modifies directly so it can be modifing ant colonies? if not how to distinguish that type of modifier or how does it differ from the example below (this was OG question verified answer):

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Farenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom


the reason i crossed of this option is the awkward "of such size" and how it doesnt show the same correlation that "so x that y" does. but i need to know how to distinguish this absolute modifier type.

[tim]

I'm not sure how any of this relates to modifiers at all. "Its collective appetite..." is a clause here and has nothing at all to do with modifiers.