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JA750
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Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by JA750 Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:54 pm

In this SC problem, I am having a hard time understanding the rule regarding selecting "have made it" in answer choice (C) over "makes it" in answer choice (B). Doesn't the subject "techniques" require "makes"?

Thanks for any advice you all can provide me.


New techniques in thermal-scanning photography, a process that records radiation from surface areas, makes it possible to study the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river in greater detail than ever before.

a. makes it possible to study the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river in greater detail than ever before

b. make it possible to study, in greater detail, the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river than ever before

c. have made it possible to study in greater detail than ever before the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river

d. make possible the study of the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river in greater detail than it ever was before

e. has made it more possible than ever before to study in greater detail the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by RonPurewal Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:29 am

antoniokey Wrote:In this SC problem, I am having a hard time understanding the rule regarding selecting "have made it" in answer choice (C) over "makes it" in answer choice (B). Doesn't the subject "techniques" require "makes"?


"techniques" is plural; "technique" is singular.
"makes" is singular; "make" is plural.
correct:
technique makes...
techniques make...


it's understandably confusing -- the "s" makes verbs singular, but makes nouns plural -- but you should be able to keep it straight by thinking about very simple sentences, such as The dogs bark and The dog barks.
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by mkurteev123 Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:11 am

what is oa to the sentence i also between B and C and finally pick up C, but not sure and also confused with comma before
of river in C
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by mschwrtz Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:15 pm

C is right.

The comma before of a river doesn't have anything to do with that phrase. The commas set off the phrase or warming, which phrase modifies calefaction. Without that modifier C would read simply

New techniques in thermal-scanning photography, a process that records radiation from surface areas, have made it possible to study in greater detail than ever before the effects of calefaction of a river.

That would also be grammatically correct, though we probably wouldn't have any idea what it meant.
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by rgaddam Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:47 pm

Can anyone please tell me what "it" in answer choice c is referring to? Is "it" referring to study? In that case the sentence becomes - "New techniques in thermal-scanning photography, a process that records radiation from surface areas, have made study (it) possible to study in greater detail...." - which does not make sense. Please help.

Thanks

mschwrtz Wrote:C is right.

The comma before of a river doesn't have anything to do with that phrase. The commas set off the phrase or warming, which phrase modifies calefaction. Without that modifier C would read simply

New techniques in thermal-scanning photography, a process that records radiation from surface areas, have made it possible to study in greater detail than ever before the effects of calefaction of a river.

That would also be grammatically correct, though we probably wouldn't have any idea what it meant.
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by RonPurewal Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:03 am

rgaddam Wrote:Can anyone please tell me what "it" in answer choice c is referring to? Is "it" referring to study?


this pronoun that can work without standing for a noun. it is one of very, very few pronouns that can.

THE ONLY PRONOUNS ON THE GMAT THAT DON'T HAVE TO STAND FOR NOUNS:
It + description + that + complete sentence
It + description + to + verb
It + (TO BE verb) + NOUN + that/who + verb

these "it"s DO NOT have to stand for nouns.
ALL other gmat pronouns must stand for nouns.


FIRST TYPE

It + is obvious + that Medellí­n will beat Nacional in Wednesday’s game.
(for any paisas who might be reading this --vamox medallo!)

It + has been said + that the moon is made of green cheese.

Johnny found it + counterintuitive + that the GMAT tests exceptions to math rules more often than it tests the rules themselves.


SECOND TYPE

It + is difficult + to distinguish between a crocodile and an alligator.
It + is difficult + for most people + to distinguish between a crocodile and an alligator.


The rain made it + quite challenging + to drive on the freeway.


THIRD TYPE

It + was my own brother + who committed the crime.


if you look at the examples you've given above, you will find that all of them conform exactly to the above templates.

also, if you have og12, check out #57.
there are four instances of "it".
the two instances of "it" that occur at the beginning of choices (present in choices (c) and (d)) fit the above templates, and so are ok even though they don't stand for nouns.
the other two instances of "it" (in choices (a) and (c)) do not fit the above templates, and so must stand for nouns; since there are no suitable nouns in those choices, those pronouns are incorrect.
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by abemartin87 Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:38 pm

Whats wrong with (B)?

1)
New techniques in X make it possible to Y

I will admit that the sentence does imply that the technique has been a already discovered (an event in the past) and that technique has been in use. I understand why (C) is correct.

Could it be the construction in (B) only works in the future tense?

New techniques in X [will] make it possible to Y

2)
Is "in greater detail" so important that the commas must be removed, as corrected in (C)? Is this a subtle fact or is it important that we need to remove the commas all together?
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by thanghnvn Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:45 pm

Why B is wrong, Pls, help
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by RonPurewal Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:32 am

thanghnvn Wrote:Why B is wrong, Pls, help


if you look at (b) vs. (c), you'll notice that chunks of words are being moved around.
when that happens, you should try to pick the answer choice that leaves single thoughts together.

here, "in greater detail than ever before" is a single thought, so it should ideally be left in one piece. if that isn't possible, then at least "in greater detail" and "than ever before" should absolutely be as close to each other as possible (since neither of them makes any sense if they are separated too far).
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by jp.jprasanna Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:12 am

RonPurewal Wrote:
rgaddam Wrote:Can anyone please tell me what "it" in answer choice c is referring to? Is "it" referring to study?


this is an example of the ONLY pronoun that is allowed to go without standing for a noun.

THE ONLY PRONOUNS ON THE GMAT THAT DON'T HAVE TO STAND FOR NOUNS:
It + description + that + complete sentence (independent clause)
It + description + to + verb (infinitive)
It + (TO BE verb) + NOUN + that/who + verb

these "it"s DO NOT have to stand for nouns.
ALL other gmat pronouns must stand for nouns.


FIRST TYPE

It + is obvious + that Medellín will beat Nacional in Wednesday’s game.
(for any paisas who might be reading this --vamox medallo!)

It + has been said + that the moon is made of green cheese.

Johnny found it + counterintuitive + that the GMAT tests exceptions to rules just as often as it tests the rules themselves.


SECOND TYPE

It + is often difficult + to distinguish between a past-tense verb and a past participle.

The rain made it + quite challenging + to drive on the freeway.


THIRD TYPE

It + was my own brother + who committed the crime.


if you look at the examples you've given above, you will find that all of them conform exactly to the above templates.

also, if you have og12, check out #57.
there are four instances of "it".
the two instances of "it" that occur at the beginning of choices (present in choices (c) and (d)) fit the above templates, and so are ok even though they don't stand for nouns.
the other two instances of "it" (in choices (a) and (c)) do not fit the above templates, and so must stand for nouns; since there are no suitable nouns in those choices, those pronouns are incorrect.



Thanks Ron for settling this issue once n for all...

But I think there is a typo in the above bold.

a. makes it possible to study the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river in greater detail than ever before

TYPE 2 so "it" is OK - doesn't have to stand for any noun here?


b. make it possible to study, in greater detail, the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river than ever before
TYPE 2 so "it" is OK - doesn't have to stand for any noun here?

c. have made it possible to study in greater detail than ever before the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river

TYPE 2 so "it" is OK - doesn't have to stand for any noun here?

e. has made it more possible than ever before to study in greater detail the effects of calefaction, or warming, of a river

Does't conform to any of the types mentioned so have to stand for noun correct?


Please help thanks in advance

Cheers
Prasanna J
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by RonPurewal Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:25 am

jp.jprasanna Wrote:But I think there is a typo in the above bold.


read the line of text directly above the bold part: those comments are about OG12 problem #57, not about the river problem.
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by pras1387 Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:39 am

Hello all,

Would just like to add B is also wrong because it renders '...., in greater detail,....' non essential but it just renders the sentence nonsensical.

Thanx
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by RonPurewal Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:37 am

pras1387 Wrote:Hello all,

Would just like to add B is also wrong because it renders '...., in greater detail,....' non essential but it just renders the sentence nonsensical.

Thanx


this is a valid point. however, it's also important to note that the difference between essential and non-essential modifiers has never been necessary to solve any of gmac's official problems.
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by thanghnvn Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:29 am

I have a question about "have done"

when "have done " dose not have time indication, it show a past action

I have learned gmat.

the problem is that, if I have the following sentence,

working very hard at the company, I have learned gmat.

Ron said that "doing" takes the times of the verb in main clause.

so, inhere, "working" is in the past or present?, pls, help

in the following:

working very hard at the company, I have learned gmat since 2010

what is difference between the two sentences. pls, help
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Re: Advice needed on SC problem from ETS paper exam

by RonPurewal Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:51 am

thanghnvn Wrote:I have a question about "have done"

when "have done " dose not have time indication, it show a past action

I have learned gmat.

the problem is that, if I have the following sentence,

working very hard at the company, I have learned gmat.

Ron said that "doing" takes the times of the verb in main clause.

so, inhere, "working" is in the past or present?, pls, help


if "i have learned the gmat" is a past action that continues up to the present, then "working at the company" is ... also a past action that continues up to the present.

as in other cases, this modifier takes on the timeframe of the action that it modifies. no exception here.

in the following:

working very hard at the company, I have learned gmat since 2010

what is difference between the two sentences. pls, help


the only difference is that you have now specified the exact timeframe. otherwise, they are the same.

in any case --
you should note that all of these sentences are illogical. since "working hard at a company" has nothing to do with learning the GMAT, it's incorrect to use "working hard at a company" as a MODIFIER in these sentences.
if you write a subsequent clause that actually has something to do with working at a company -- e.g., Working hard at the company, I have gained a great deal of experience in the industry -- then these sentences can work.