According to a survey of graduating medical students conduct

[RonPurewal]

[accidentally replied to an old post]

[JacobW468]

To recap, we only need to realize that "likely" takes the infinitive (eliminating ABD) and "as X as" is the correct form for comparison (eliminating E) to solve this problem. The beginning part of the underline is a false split and this isn't a "like" vs "as" issue. It is an idiom/comparison question. Would I be correct to think this? I just need to confirm for my error log. Thanks!

[RonPurewal]

in general, please try to avoid "To recap..." posts. by definition, such posts add zero value, and just clutter the discussion threads.

the point is to read through the thread, in its entirety, and resolve as many issues as you can in so doing. then, ask any outstanding questions.

[RonPurewal]

that "likely" takes the infinitive

^^ don't know this terminology, so, i don't know.
but, the correct/incorrect use of "likely" is discussed in the thread.

"as X as" is the correct form for comparison (eliminating E)

yes.

[RonPurewal]

The beginning part of the underline is a false split

i don't know what this is supposed to mean.

if you're saying that you shouldn't compare "minority graduates" and "it"... well, of course you shouldn't! you should compare the things that actually correspond to each other.

i suspect you're saying something else, since "you shouldn't compare minority graduates and it" is obvious. so, please clarify.

and this isn't a "like" vs "as" issue.

well... no, it isn't. why would you even be thinking about this?
considering that the word "like" doesn't appear anywhere in the choices?

[evelynho]

Hi Instructors,
Just wonder if I can make the go-through process simpler.

"Four times" already means the extent of comparison by multiplication, while if it is followed by "more than", it could be redundant or worse than "four time as likely as". So eliminate AB.
D, "rather than" means the alternative, a kind of replacement, then it distorts the original meaning.Not D.
E, as Ron mentioned, "as likely" and "than" after "four times" is redundant. Not E.
Then it should be C. Please comment.
Best Regards,

[RonPurewal]

Hi Instructors,
Just wonder if I can make the go-through process simpler.

first, please do not do this ^^. we do not want discussion threads to be followed by X number of "okay let me try to summarize this whole thing" posts.
please post only things that add value to the discussion already in the thread. thank you.

[RonPurewal]

"Four times" already means the extent of comparison by multiplication, while if it is followed by "more than", it could be redundant or worse than "four time as likely as". So eliminate AB.

^^ no.

"4 times as [adjective] as..." and "4 times more [adjective] than..." are both valid constructions.
they're mathematically distinct, but that's not relevant in SC. neither one is "better" than the other.

this is already covered on page 1 of the discussion thread, where i wrote "there is no reason to prefer one of these constructions over the other". 3rd post on page 1.
please read the ENTIRE discussion thread before posting. thank you.

[DungN738]

"It is nearly four times as likely for minority graduates as for other graduates to plan to practice...

"Likely for (someone) to (verb)" isn't a thing. Once you've seen that, you've seen that; the issue has nothing to do with the comparison.

" and "It is nearly four times more likely that minority graduates than other graduates will plan to practice...", except memorise them as incorrect expressions one by one.

If the sentence starts out with "It is more likely that...", then you can't break up the clause starting with "that", just as you wouldn't want to break up any other construction that is one of the two things being compared.
Unlike the idiom above, this one requires no knowledge beyond "don't break up stuff that shouldn't be broken up".

This is my first post here.

Ron, could you kindly elaborate on the part that I colored in red. I don't seem to understand what you were trying to say, although I have read through all the posts in this thread.

Thanks tons.

[RonPurewal]

that just isn't idiomatic.

[chetan86]

If the second part of the comparison is just "other graduates", then the first part clearly must be a noun; that noun can work in one of two ways.

1/
It can appear directly next to "than".
Harvard graduates who start companies are more likely to hire strangers than other graduates.

2/
It can be the subject of "is/are more likely".
Engineering graduates are more likely to earn high starting salaries than other graduates.

Hi Ron,

I am confused. I thought sentence #1 is ambiguous, because "other graduates" can be compared to either "strangers" or "Harvard graduates". Is my thinking correct? Please clarify.

Thanks in advance!

Hi Ron,

It seems you missed this post. I also have the same question. Could you please reply?

Thanks!

[RonPurewal]

no, because "other graduates" = other harvard graduates. if you interpret the sentence in your alternative way, you get "harvard graduates are more likely to hire strangers than other harvard graduates are", which makes no sense.

if you mean "graduates of other schools", then you'd have to write "graduates of other schools", or "other schools' graduates".
...and even then you'd still have a problem, because the first half of the comparison is harvard graduates who start companies -- which can't meaningfully be compared to graduates (in general) of other schools.

[chetan86]

Hi Ron,

Thanks a lot for explanation. I am clear now.

[RonPurewal]

you're welcome.

[Crisc419]

Ron，I'm so grateful for your kind and patient reply to my long post.
Many thanks.

After reading all your elaboration three times, I seem to grasp the main thrust here, which is "flanking".

In New York City, more people walk than drive to work.
--> "Walk" and "drive" are flanking "than" ---->correct

Harvard graduates who start companies are more likely to hire strangers than other graduates.
"strangers" and "other graduates" are flanking "than"--->correct

Engineering graduates are more likely to earn high starting salaries than other graduates.

As you said, it can be reorganised to a better form with the comparison in one continuous piece:

Engineering graduates are more likely than other graduates to earn high starting salaries.
--->So "Engineering graduates" and "other graduates" are flanking "more likely than"---->correct

However, if I eliminate "rather" from choice D:
It is nearly four times more likely that minority graduates than other graduates will plan to practice...

Even though "minority graduates" and "other graduates" are flanking "than", the above sentence is still incorrect, because the flanking part ---"minority graduates than other graduates"--- is somehow stuck in the "middle " of the sentence?

In contrast, the flanking part "Engineering graduates are more likely than other graduates" is put at the beginning of the corresponding sentence. The flanking part "strangers and other graduates" is put at the end of the corresponding sentence.

Therefore, I guess, for the position of comparison of two nouns, the 'beginning' and the 'end' are fine, but the 'middle' is not allowed, right?

Not exactly. Most often, nouns come at the beginning or end of a sentence, so in most cases, you would see the comparison happen there. But you could also see an example like:

For breakfast, Joe likes to eat omelets rather than oatmeal, and drink milk.

As Ron said in his first post, the biggest issue in D is the unidiomatic construction of D. We all understand what D is trying to say, but it's just not the way that the English language says it.

Also, if I change choice E into:
It is nearly four times as likely for minority graduates as for other graduates to plan to practice...

The above sentence is correct,right? "for minority graduates" and "for other graduates" are flanking "as", and the flanking part is stuck in the 'middle' of the sentence, but the sentence is correct because the comparison target ('for + NOUN') in the flanking part is a prepositional phrase that could be put in the 'middle' of a sentence?

Sorry for bothering you with this comparison issue for so long time.
I'm really trying to find a rule that could be engraved in my mind, so I'm well prepared for other similar questions of comparison when I meet them later in the real test.

This would be incorrect, again, because of the unidiomatic style of setting this up. In my opinion, there are two correct ways to write this sentence (comparisons in quotes):

"X" is 4 times as likely as "Y" to do something.
or
It is 4 times as likely that "X does something", as it is that "Y does that same thing".

Answer choice C goes with the first (and simpler) construction- compares nouns to nouns. Answer choices D & E both attempt the second construction, but fail to compare what X DOES with what Y DOES. If you wanted to use that construction properly, you would need a sentence like:

it is nearly four times more likely that minority graduates will plan to practice in socioeconomically deprived areas, than other graduates will plan to.

please clarify, thanks.

First, do we need a "that" here, the sentence above omit "that".
It is nearly four times more likely that minority graduates will plan to practice in socioeconomically deprived areas, than （that）other graduates will plan to.

Second, why the form is "It is 4 times as likely that X does something, as it is that Y does that same thing, not " It is 4 times as likely that X does something as that Y does that same thing? why we need"it is" here?

many, many thanks.
Cris